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Used Tacoma, sludged engine

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Pyts, Aug 4, 2023.

  1. Aug 20, 2023 at 2:04 PM
    #61
    David2431

    David2431 Well-Known Member

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    I think he's on the right track scooping it out with his gloved fingers. Why not continue doing that while it's open to remove as much of the crap as he can by hand. Then follow with a Diesel fuel flush changing the filter each time. I mean, flush it-add oil/Diesel fuel/filter; drive it ten miles, repeat.... The quality of filter doesn't have to be the best until you're ready to call it "good". You could go with SuperTech full syn to save a few bucks per change. It might cost a hundred bucks or so to do four or five of these changes but when you're done I think you could relax for a bit. After all, you MIGHT not need to do any other engine work/replacement for a good long time.
     
    Pyts[OP] likes this.
  2. Aug 20, 2023 at 4:12 PM
    #62
    Dacapster

    Dacapster Well-Known Member

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    i would change that out cracks like to grow fast on spinney things.
     
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  3. Aug 24, 2023 at 2:20 PM
    #63
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    :boink: I'm gonna try and run the cracked balancer. I don't have a valid reason why. But I agree that doing as I intend to is dumb. Maybe I'll have a funny story for yuh shortly!

    Just got the balance shaft chain back on and all lined up!!
    PXL_20230824_201547500.MP.jpg

    Upper (engine) right gear/driving gear lined up with lower/driven gear (think I got those names right) and chain mark.
    PXL_20230824_201555460.MP.jpg

    I believe the gears in the above image were misaligned before but I lack the ability to verify that with math.

    This one's how I found the crank balance chain n gears upon removing the timing cover with the engine set to TDC on the compression stroke:PXL_20230821_213932145.MP.jpg

    Crankshaft gear lined up with paired chain marks.
    PXL_20230824_201613503.MP.jpg

    Old guides!:
    PXL_20230824_201747308.MP.jpg

    PXL_20230824_201709973.MP.jpg

    I forgot to snap a pic of the third one's (which works with the tensioner) wear.

    PXL_20230824_201805646.MP.jpg

    Something worth mentioning. To get all the gears and chain aligned I had to hold them, and there were 3.. crank, left, and right. So I put a zip-tie through the crank sprocket and around the chain to keep it aligned while I worked out alignment for the other two gears..

    The white line is, yeah, where I put the zip tie to keep the chain properly placed. Worth doing, as you cant really get your face in there to check your work.PXL_20230824_201613503.MP~2.jpg
     
    road2cycle and Steves104x4 like this.
  4. Aug 24, 2023 at 2:45 PM
    #64
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    Wow. So glad that you decided to get in there. Those guides really needed to be replaced. You thoroughness has prevented larger future problems
     
    Dacapster likes this.
  5. Aug 24, 2023 at 3:03 PM
    #65
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it strange? The engine only has 80k miles on it, the guides appear to be half-way to metal, and the balance shaft chain and gears weren't placed properly in accordance with the haynes manual.. so that aught to mean they werent set up as intended to balance the crank as the engine cycles. But everything looked completely untouched to me.

    Oh! Another note!! The melling balance shaft kit over on rockauto comes with the chain, tensioner and TWO of THREE guides!

    Thank you @Torspd , @Steves104x4 , and everybody for sharing your knowledge, experience, and for your ongoing support. I'll keep going and posting up 'til it's done and running, then I'll see about taking you guys on the maiden voyage via youtube.
     
  6. Aug 24, 2023 at 5:11 PM
    #66
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    Long OCI's and or thin oil, caused that wear.

    I'll have some :popcorn: and wait for the vid.
     
  7. Aug 24, 2023 at 5:31 PM
    #67
    RustyGreen

    RustyGreen A breaker point guy in a Bluetooth world

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    Great to see you making progress. :thumbsup:

    Really, really caution you against running the damaged balancer, if they fail they can do a great deal of damage.

    You have a lot of time and work on this project - you don't want to have it all come undone on you at 3000 rpm.
     
    69 Jim likes this.
  8. Aug 24, 2023 at 5:54 PM
    #68
    b_r_o

    b_r_o Gnar doggy

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    That balancer will be fine. Pulling some 8x1.25 threads out is nowhere near as bad as an actual crack running across it. If you ever need to pull it you've still got a couple threaded holes to use
     
    Torspd likes this.
  9. Aug 25, 2023 at 8:43 AM
    #69
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    The balancer is something I'd now feel comfortable changing quickly (doesn't require losing any costly fluids) but the intake cam gear.. that's another story.
    PXL_20230825_152923792.MP.jpg

    The exhaust cam (left side of the image) gets a replacement included in the timing kit. The right, however, no such luck. In fact, no parts listing for it on rockauto. The right side isn't as chewed up as the left but I'm still deeply concerned. I think I'd have to go through the dealer to replace it.

    I'm gonna suck it up and make the call, see if I can afford it both cash and timewise.

    Here's the new exhaust cam gear for reference, first compared to the old exhaust cam gear (check out the cuts on the face of it!)
    PXL_20230825_153814590.MP.jpg

    Then compared to the old intake gear

    PXL_20230825_153825213.MP.jpg
     
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  10. Aug 25, 2023 at 9:08 AM
    #70
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    $450 from the dealership... I can get it on ebay for ~$180, but it would be shipping from Dubai. I'm going to try and see if there's an engine parts supplier near me, maybe one that the local machinist uses.

    Oh, another fun fact: The cloyes timing kit from rockauto comes with all necessary parts for the crankshaft balance chain service. That means I now have a whole spare set :frusty: and can't return either one

    EDIT: Alright! Going to take the old gear over to the local machinist and maybe they'll talk to me. Historically, they've been less than cool.

    Oh, I also went ahead and weighed the OE exhaust cam gear against the Cloyes replacement
    Here's the Cloyes
    PXL_20230825_164325174.MP~2.jpg

    And here's the OE
    PXL_20230825_164346537.MP~2.jpg

    I thought I felt a difference.

    And for yucks, here's how I got the exhaust cam gear off
    PXL_20230825_164134299.MP.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2023
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    #70
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  11. Aug 25, 2023 at 10:03 AM
    #71
    Dm93

    Dm93 Test Don't Guess

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    Make sure the oil jet for the timing chain (if there is one) is clear and not plugged.
     
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  12. Aug 26, 2023 at 7:51 AM
    #72
    bkhlrTaco's

    bkhlrTaco's “expletive deleted”

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    Not sure if you got all the gunk out and put back together but it made me think of those little vacuum cleaner tips for detailing cars and sucking out what you can.
    I've been that far into an engine before. Hate it much but sometimes it needs to be done.
    There are places that will make just about any gear. We had to get a few for a press I work on. Normally $30k gear had it made for $17k!
     
  13. Aug 26, 2023 at 8:10 AM
    #73
    Findus11

    Findus11 Well-Known Member

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    I got a 95 subie with 265,000 miles on it that came sludged up. What worked for me was adding some sea foam to the oil, run it for 500 miles or so, then change it. That oil always comes out super dark and nasty so it must be working
     
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  14. Aug 26, 2023 at 6:13 PM
    #74
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I think the timing chain gets lubed at least through the intake cam sprocket.
    That weird extra piece to it that looks like a compass, well that part stays stationary and as the gear rotates it exposes a weep hole. Gah, I wish I snapped a picture for you guys.

    I'm going to be hitting the timing cover with the pressure washer :rofl: I was wasting too many shop towels, and I need to run the pressure washer every now and then.

    It was 97° out today. Being in it gave me a stinging sensation, so I skipped today.

    I did do my work on the timing cover mating surfaces, as well as compare and install all the timing guides and chain.. Minus the top guide. No o-ring for it, I had to head to ace hardware.

    Removing silicone step 1 (there's no paper, metal, cork or rubber gasket for the timing cover, just silicone)
    PXL_20230824_220539710.MP.jpg

    Step 2 3M scuff pad very fine
    PXL_20230824_220602991.MP.jpg
    PXL_20230824_220739557.MP.jpg

    Step 3, wipe off
    PXL_20230824_222149732.jpg

    I imagine somebody might take issue with the razor blade. I'm real careful.
    Step 4 is 91% alcohol followed by silicone. Not there yet.

    Securing the chain with zip-ties, properly aligned on the crank sprocket. This allowed me to focus on getting the cam gears right.
    PXL_20230825_174655802.MP.jpg

    some guide comparisons
    PXL_20230825_175852836.MP.jpg
    PXL_20230825_175916654.MP.jpg

    PXL_20230825_181552114.MP.jpg

    Not too bad!..

    Will post up more tomorrow.
     
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  15. Aug 26, 2023 at 11:09 PM
    #75
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Sorry the above post was a mess.
    I'll take a pic of the o-ring seal not included in the timing kit tomorrow. To the best of my knowledge, it's meant to be a #10, 11/16" OD x 1/2" ID. The one they had at ace is for plumbing and lists compatibility with Moen, like the faucets.. I don't wanna tie things up by ordering a Buna N O-ring from mcmastercarr. Ugh. I don't know. This'll be accessible just by removing the valve cover.. OKAY! I looked up the P/N, the plumbing o-ring was made by Danco. It IS a Buna N just like on mcmastercarr, and is good to 249°, and oil don't get that hot, so YES, plumbing o-rings purchased from ace hardware should work in engines. https://www.mcguckin.com/2763481/product/danco-35727b

    That's really cool! Unfortunately it'd likely be well outside of my budget. The closest I've gotten to gear that fancy since leaving the service is... ~4 foot long, inch thick HSS chopping blades picked up free from a closed shop that did something with paper. They made a marketplace post one night and just left stuff in their loading bay. I showed up for a rolling rack, but I couldn't just leave those huge things there. :anonymous: what if I need to shave an elephant?

    Anyways, I measured the old intake gear with the new chain and it came in at 4.61" or something (got it written down somewhere) and the service limit is 4.48" or so according to Haynes.. I know the first two digits of each are correct. The new exhaust came in at ~4.5805". May not have been dead on with caliper placement on that one since it was installed, but close enough to mean the intake is safe to run!

    I considered dremeling the edges in grooves between teeth myself after the machinist turned me out, but then thought they may need their full width to keep the chain tracking wobble-free. Checked, and the new exhaust gear also had sharp edges.
     
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  16. Aug 27, 2023 at 10:20 AM
    #76
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Alright. I'm all ready to put the cover on... Once it dries. Also, I sprayed the cam sensor I skipped uninstalling. Gonna take the pan off now and spray it.

    Here's the o ring, with measurements taken of the original and the new one installed.

    PXL_20230827_144521770.MP.jpg

    PXL_20230827_144534532.MP.jpg

    Original's measurementsPXL_20230827_144621520.MP~2.jpg

    PXL_20230827_144658966.MP~2.jpg

    This guide sits on itPXL_20230827_144847847.MP.jpg

    Now, I thought my timing was out before, but I no longer think that. The cam marks dont line up perfectly, the chain is too long between 'em to make that happen. The only thing that could correct that is tension created by the upper guide, but seeing how it only torques to 84 Inch lbs. and doesnt really press on the chain much at all, I figure this must be part of the design.
    Identical mark alignment with both the old and new chain. I DO think the balance chain was misaligned, and possibly from the factory. I'll see about posting that in threads about idle vibration in drive

    You can see what I mean:
    PXL_20230827_145843503.MP.jpg

    PXL_20230827_145833258.MP.jpg

    OH!!! Here's the intake cam gear weep hole I was telling you about. Per my observation, it's the soul source of oil for the chain besides getting a bath in the bottom (zoom in)
    PXL_20230827_145036736~2.jpg

    I discovered it cuz it spit on me while measuring, after I'd wiped everything off.

    Here's all the shiny new stuff torqued. I kept the zip ties on the crank gear til I got everything set and pulled the tensioner guide inboard to take up slack.
    PXL_20230827_145509080.MP.jpg

    Then I noticed and cleaned this spot of silicone.
    PXL_20230827_150524495.MP.jpg

    Alright, now you're all caught up.

    Oh, and here's one of those giant blades I mentioned standing next to my engine hoist ram. Not actually an inch thick. Maybe half.
    PXL_20230827_165051078.MP.jpg
     
  17. Aug 28, 2023 at 12:25 PM
    #77
    R1100Ron

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  18. Aug 28, 2023 at 4:39 PM
    #78
    Pyts

    Pyts [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Only did a couple things today.
    Accessed the oil pump to get any trapped water out. (still need to access the little piston in there)
    PXL_20230828_155926786.MP.jpg

    Aaaand I fought the oil pan out. Not as straightforward as it seems, doesn't fit out. Considered lifting the engine, then someone said it could be done by unbolting the trans mount (4 12mm head bolts in cross brace) and jacking up the trans.

    I tried it, and I found success on accident after giving up and trying to move it aside just to see the pump screen. Jacking the trans
    PXL_20230828_200232365.MP.jpg

    Jack placement. Used a screwed together block stack I made from when I needed to drop an engine out of an escape. Oh! I also unbolted the trans dipstick from the intake so that it could move freely. only moved like 1/4", but still.
    PXL_20230828_200254296.MP~2.jpg

    The oil pan fits out this way
    PXL_20230828_210316832.MP.jpg

    When you bring the pan in, bring in the shallow side first (towards the front of the vehicle) so that you can line it up with no fuss. I did a dry run first (hence pics) to make sure I could get it back in there without dragging the silicone all over the place.

    I also purchased a gasket, being unsure if it had one. But kept with OE recommendations besides that, applying silicone to both sides.
    PXL_20230828_212347850.MP.jpg

    Oh, I think I'm forgetting some things.
    I got the surfaces all clean with a razor, scuff pad, and alcohol. I'll add those next but I bet you guys are wondering what state the pan was actually in. Just a sec!
    PXL_20230828_203402953.MP.jpg

    PXL_20230828_200100778.MP.jpg
    You already saw the pan cleaned, so here's it dirty. Honestly it was all super soft sludge and it didn't clog the screen much if at all.
    PXL_20230828_170818662.MP.jpg

    All I found in the pump screen besides one or two dots of sludge was this.
    PXL_20230828_204120291.MP.jpg

    It looks like strips of a gasket that may have surrounded the mesh in the pump screen. I used a can of dust off and needle nose pliers to negotiate them out. In all there were 4 such strips I could locate, and I think if I made them into a circle they might have matched the screen's circumference.

    Oh, and if you're curious those are koken nut grabber sockets purchased from online Japanese tool importer frankstools. They have a ball detent on 'em to hold your nuts and bolts. Made pretty well, the amount of force needed to remove the socket from an extension is greater than that needed to release the fastener. I used them when possible on this job.

    And finally. right after I siliconed the pan, lightning storm


    I asked my partner to hold an umbrella over my legs so I could torque the bolts. I never imagined she'd agree, but she did, so then I had to actually do it. The silicone had a bit too much time to skin, maybe 30 mins before torque with only 4 bolts holding it snug til then. I didn't do a good job cross-torquing either, but I think with two layers of silicone and a gasket I could afford an error like that.

    Oil pan is back on and the timing cover will follow tomorrow, weather permitting. I think we're getting some of Florida's hurricane though.

    PXL_20230828_214036590.MP.jpg
     
    winkel, TnShooter, road2cycle and 7 others like this.
  19. Aug 28, 2023 at 7:18 PM
    #79
    Torspd

    Torspd Tor-nication

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    Sure could have used that rain down here. Then you could have torqued those bolts without an umbrella. ;)
     
  20. Aug 28, 2023 at 8:10 PM
    #80
    Woofer2609

    Woofer2609 Getting better all the time.

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    Good advice, I just went through this. I replaced the pulley wheel instead of the whole assembly (the tensioner spring felt fine). Took 10 minutes. You can also press a new bearing into the pulley after removing it if you want to save some $. I think the bearing was a 6302 2RS or 6203 2RS ($7.50 for an NSK bearing.)
    Sorry for the thread derailment!
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2023

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