UTAH (and Surrounding Areas) BS Thread

We drove to white pocket on Sunday before our return leg. By the time we got back to pavement, most of us were just in GTFO mode so we skipped it. Next time...

 

Looking to get into management, somewhere around 40-50k/yr to start if that makes sense.

 

Recommendation please!

I want to go exploring as soon as we get unpacked.

Time: mid January (so makes sure roads are passable)
Truck: 16 OR, mostly stock.
Distance: one tank of gas from house -or gas station closest to trail- and back again.
Location: anywhere between St George and Cedar City. Willing to go further, but mainly just interested to get out venturing in what’s to become our new backyard.

 

I’ll venture way off the highway, I just need something in that general vicinity. (I’m not heading to Moab just yet...).

 

Thanksgiving was my first time exploring the St. George area and Sand Hollow was recommended to me. While I don't care much for driving around on the dunes, the rock portions were pretty excellent. A ton of fun. I have a semi-built truck that I didn't care as much to get scratched so that probably added to the fun of the area...

 

Ya know? I disagree with some of the statements you make, but as a whole if we both refrain from attacking each other for any glaring political differences, and look at how we both look towards these places we actually share strikingly similar interests in how we would like these lands managed in order to best appease our wants/needs. More access, free/low cost access, reduced bureacratic interference, protection of important resources, and the rejection of extremist ideology on both sides of the argument.

Now I do have to argue I think the size of BENM is entirely acceptable, being that the community had plenty of time to argue for/against the size of the monument and the size was determined as a result of years of deliberation with local community, land managers, and the general public. We knew it would be this big if it came to be, and Obama's proclomation was truly not a surpise. GSENM on the other hand was pretty egregious, and reflected little local sentiment into the size/scope of the monument. I do not doubt that. But if you look at these area surrounded by GSENM nowadays they are bathing in the money that is created by the tourism industry! Giving life to the rural communities that are clearly dying across the nation as our country/economy continues to modernize.

Another big argument with your rant, we are talking about national monuments vs national parks. The differences between the two are striking and vitally important to differentiate when we discuss this issue. Also dealing with the large NP you can clearly elude to the issues regarding the hierachial organization of these places, its ineffective and often results in bureacratic "dick swinging". I prefer national monument designation to national park designation ten-fold!

 

Dude first off, space that shit out. I think I got a migraine trying to read everything you said lol.

BENM was designated by Obama following two other failed attempts to create the monument. The first was the original PLI(public lands intiative) proposed under Utah Senator Bob Bennet. Bennet created a comprehensive plan that aimed to integrate the various interests in the public lands (ranching, timber, mining, coal, oil, gas, environmentalisits, recreationalists, etc.), as you know Public Lands issues have always existed in Utah and Bennet specifically worked to bring these varied interests together to discuss their differences. It was remarkable, it really was something ground breaking and quite frankly it looked like everyone would give up a little bit of something and in turn get the majority of their interests honored. Within this original PLI bill Bennet actually laid out a national monument designation that closely remsembles the Bears Ears National Monument boundaries that were laid out by Obama. Here is a link from the Salt Lake Trib showing the differences between BENM and the PLI designation: http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4835113&itype=CMSID. The best thing about the PLI? San Juan County, the locals you talk about lacking representation ate that shit up. Don't believe me? http://sanjuancounty.org/index.php/2016/09/30/eastern-utah-public-lands-initiative/
Then Bennet was voted out of office...

This is when Rob Bishop got his hands on the great bill that Bennet had worked so hard to create. And correspondingly the bill went to shit (according to my point of view). Instead of everyone sacrificing a little and getting most everything back Bishop gutted the requests of environmentalists, recreationalists, and pro-conservation groups to best appease industry needs/wants. Now I am not saying that he completely disregarded the groups I mention above, but rather Bishop took what Bennet had worked 6 years to get everyone on board with and completely fucked up the aforementioned agreements. This ticked the envi/rec/conservation groups off and their was vast public outcry against this bill, remember the NO PLI signs in peoples lawns? Well obviously Bishop took this Bill to the House, and guess what?! It didn't even get a vote because everyone could tell how bad it reeked of special interest industry groups. The date of this rejection was December 8th, 2016. After this failure is when Obama went to action in drafting the Executive order that created the BENM, which was later enacted on my birthday (December 28th, 2016).

During the time Bishop worked on dismantling the original PLI (2009-2016), the Tribes created the proclomation, under the group name Dine Bikeyah, I eluded to earlier because they realized that the PLI no longer represented their interests. This is where things got especially nasty, resulting in what we see today. (May I add: The tribes were the group that originally brought the proposal to Obama's desk, not special interests... The local tribal residents created this, a true grassroots movement.) After folks saw what the tribes wanted is when the special interests got involved to help fund, support, publicize, etc. their proposal.

As for my earlier statement regarding "swimming in money", yes I exagerated but my ideas are still rooted in facts. Read this quote from the Hinckley Institue at the UofU "Employment in Kane County is projected to increase at an annual rate of 2.6 percent, from 4,116 in 2005 to 6,028 by 2020, with little change in the overall structure of the economy. The fastest-growing sector will be leisure and hospitality, adding 630 jobs over the period and accounting for about 28 percent of all jobs in the county by 2020. Other fast-growing sectors will be other services (305 new jobs) and government (304 new jobs). The fewest job gains will be in information (13) and manufacturing (80). The natural resources and mining sector will actually lose jobs, with a corresponding decline in its employment share from 4.7 percent to 2.9 percent. source: http://www.fcaog.state.ut.us/dep/community/bebr/Kane Profile.pdf And for the tax burden sentence: would you rather Utah residents be forced to accomadate this on their own or rather the US as a whole? The tax burden is going to exist regardless of your opinion so your choise who has to pay it.

Were you on the actual pony express trail? Or in near proximity to the trail? If you were near to the trail it is entirely understandable why you shouldn't camp next to it.... You could potentially detract from someone else's experience on the trail by leaving sign that you were there. Now this isn't to say I think everything the feds do is correct, trust me I despise those brown posts just as much as you sometimes but on the whole the federal government does a good job at handling the vast tasks at hand in public land management.

I think monuments are great cause I do not pay a dime to visit, at least at the monuments we are discussing, I can camp wherever the hell I want (within reason of course, see dispersed camping BLM), becuase of the lack of development the traditional crowds avoid these places, trails are often far and few between I can practice my land navigation skills and get to places few people ever visit, cross-country travel is not dis-allowed like NPs, the protection of resources is still high but its not overbearing like the NP system. In my opinion monument designation is like the hands off governmental approach you say you encourage and national park designation is the precise high level of governmental interference that you so passionately dissavow. Not to say I hate all national parks, I just prefer national monuments.

 

Unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the country. Plenty of work for those that want it.

 

I'm going to try these guys for alignment after I get my 1" front spacers on tomorrow. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

Has anybody found a good shop to install the ECGS bushing? I'm in the Lehi/Orem area.

Also, here's a few pics of the truck when I took it out to Lake Mountain/Little Moab over the weekend!

 

Where is this? On Lake Mountain itself?

 

Those picture are from Little Moab.

 

Are you running Bilstein 6112 up front? What are you running out back? Also, nice Truck!

 

Thanks.

Up front I got 5100s with 885 coils and the rear is stock still but I got 5100s I'll be installing just after Christmas.

 

They looked so beefy for some reason. Was thinking of going that direction w/ 6112 just looking for some user feedback for conditions we find in Utah ie. long desert approaches to some minor desert rock crawling and long forest/fire roads. Thanks man

 

The 5100s up front have been fine for me so far. I've only had them on about a week now, but I did 100 miles on dirt road last weekend and then a little bit of crawling. I looked into getting a better setup for the front but it's just so much $...and I don't do anything crazy besides dirt roads and what my pictures showed so I"m pretty happy with them.

 

No problem, hope you have a good experience with them as well!

 

So, has anybody figured out the key to inputting grid addresses in the factory nav?

I use google maps all the time off my phone, but I got the "come pay for a map upgrade LOL" letter in the mail last night, and got curious.

 

Huh, didn't realize that's actually the name of a place here. How did I never hear about this?

Gonna have to go check it out now.

 

Probably because it is in no man's land between Eagle Mountain and Eureka in Pinion Pass. Been meaning to make the run between 5 Mile Pass and Eureka. I hear there is some cool olg gold mine stuff all around there.

Somewhere around there is a mine shaft that is now grated over, but with a jeep at the bottom of it that fell in...hence the grate.