Vibration after new wheels and tires and numerous balancing

Hey everyone, I know this might sound like a repeated thread, but I really doubt it is as I haven't been able to find a similar case to this almost anywhere on the net.

I have a 2020 Tacoma with Fox 2.5 remote reservoir (from Accutune), Icon/Delta Joint UCA's, Icon rxt rear leaves, etc.
ARB Front Bumper/All-Pro Rocksliders/Warn Zeon 10 winch (as far as added weight)

TIMELINE:
I went from stock 16" TRD wheels to 17" 1552 brand wheels with BFG KO2 285/70R17.
Came out of Costco Tires with vibration on the steering wheel and seats at around 50-70mph.
Rebalanced, with same problem.
Rotated the tires at home and put the front ones in the rear and was able to get rid of the steering vibration but more seat vibration.
Replaced the two suspected rear tires (which were in the front prior to rotation), and got vibration again.
Costco claimed that my 1552 wheels were out of round. So, went back to 1552 and they send me a new set of 4 wheels.
Went back to Costco and they mounted the tires on the new wheels and I still had vibration.
So, this time Costco replaced the newly replaced 2 Ko2's which didn't help eliminate the vibration and again there was more vibration. Looking at the wheels on the balancer the Costco technicians suggested that the new set of wheels also looks out of round....
So, I sent back two sets of 1552 wheels and went to Toyota and purchased a set of 17" 4runner TRD wheels and mounted the BFG's on.
Again... guess what? Vibration....

I called BFG and they immediately, gave me a warranty claim number and told me that they have seen such issues with the Ko2's and suggested I get the same tires but with DT prefix which stands for Different Tread. Of course due to COVID-19 these were on back order and not available.

Talking to a few people, they suggested I try a different brand like Toyo or Nitto...

I purchased a set of TOYO Open Country ATIII's which are 4 ply's from Discount Tires and mounted them on the TRD Wheels.
While I was super excited and ready for a normal ride... I felt vibration and went back in again.
They apologized about a user error and told me that it wasn't balanced correctly and balanced it.
It was finally balanced, super smooth, like a Cadillac.
And I had been driving it for almost 3 months/ 3000miles, until last week.
When I received a call from my Toyota dealership that the SCS Ray 10's have arrived.

I got a set of SCS Ray 10's with -10 offset and took the Toyo's off the TRD wheels and put them on the Ray 10'a.
I'm back to square 1. There's vibration inside the vehicle/seats, etc. at around 50-70mph.
My steering wheels vibrated around the same speed range and even more when I applied brakes.
Now after another balance, the steering wheel vibration has become an intermittent issue. But vibration in the body/seats is always there at/around 50-70mph.

FYI, Discount Tire, uses road force balancers...

I have never had to go back for rebalancing a wheel so many times, never.
To prove that I'm not OCD or too sensitive I have the video from steering vibration which is fully visible/noticeable...

So, don't know what to do next...

Sorry for the long story. Any technical/emotional support is appreciated!

Cheers/Thanks

 

If its when you apply brakes only then its rotors.


If its only during certain speeds and youve rebalanced then Swap carrier bearing and ujoint. Easy

 

Wonder how many times the wheels were over torqued seeing how many times they off and on.... this will cause rotors to “warp” and a shaking n the steering wheel while braking

 

It seems like it's time to have someone look at the suspension.

 

Often times parts replacers find it easier to throw new parts rather than fix the problem. While there are manufacturing defects, they are rare and to see multiple defective parts is even more rare. Issues like this usually come down to skill. Toyota wheels are notoriously hard to balance and it takes someone that really knows what they are doing when you have problems like this. Contrary to the popular myth started years ago by the fucktard Gadget of URD, you don't need a road force balancer. Here are a few questions to get things started...

1. Have you installed a ECGS bushing? That is where you should start if you haven't.
2. What kind of lug nuts are you running? SCS wheels are hub centric, but the ETs add an extra layer. Plus they give you a few more threads
3. How much weight is on the wheels? A smiley face on the rear wheels could be a pretty good indication that they didn't balance them properly.
4. How do they roll? This is probably the key. Discount will allow you in the shop. When they have them on the balancer, you should get down on a knee and watch them spin on the balancer. Look for hops in both the wheel and the tire. That will give you a good idea of what they do on your truck.

This isn't rocket science, but there is a method to troubleshoot to narrow the problem down. BTW, I am shocked that Costco sold you non stock size tires on aftermarket wheels. They usually won't do it.

 

Put your stock rims and tires back on and see if the problem is still there. If it still vibrates you know its the truck if not, its something in the rim and or tire. either way it will let you know where to focus your time and money to solve issue.

 

Have you tried balancing beads? I run 8 oz in each tire. That way your tires are balanced for the life of the tire. I run 37s and have real bead locks. So I can mount up whatever tires BFG gives me at home. And I’ll never have to go to a tire shop again. But ya that’s a good idea .. put your stock tires and wheels on see what happens. Good luck and next time buy some Raceline wheels and you won’t have problems.

 

Don't discard its not a tire issue causing this...i had the same issue on a tundra after buying a set of new tires. I had them rebalanced 3 times by the same tire dealer before trying another shop. None of them could get the vibration issue solved while saying it could be the tires themselves having something wrong when manufactured. I put up with it for awhile complaining my case to the original tire dealer. They finally agreed to give me some warranty credit toward another tire brand. I ended up with some goodyear adventures with kevlar...problem solved.

 

Where's the video?

 

Sungod, thanks for input.
You’re right Costco doesn’t work on oversized wheels and tires. I took in the wheels and they mounted the tires but after facing the issues they decided to take it in as an exception to make sure if their tires were the problem.

going back to your points:

I haven’t replaced the cv joint yet and have had the mild roaring since the lift but I doubt that’s causing this type of vibration/shaking. And since I was able to get this fixed once with balancing I feel this is not the main problem. But I’m planning to take care of this in the next few weeks.

I also have a 4runner trd pro which I have swapped it’s trd wheels with the Tacoma and able to get rid of the vibration. But that has 265/70r17’s on it.

ive used et lug nuts on both the 1552’s and the scs’s.

Im going to discount tires again today for re balancing and want to ask them to take the tires off and mount from scratch and will check the tires and wheels personally.

I wonder how they can always balance the wheels again when they were Balanced three times in a few days time without any aggressive driving or anything resulting in loss of weights, etc.

I read about too much bead lubricant application which could cause the wheels to spin inside the tires and take them out of balance. I wonder if this is the case.

so far I’ve been able to balance tgese tires only on trd wheels which are 7” wide. I also wonder if tge extra width of the scs’s (8.5”) might be causing this vibration?

thanks again.

I tried uploading video but it doesn’t let me upload because of the file’s extension. I’ll see if I can change it on my pc and upload it.

 

I completely agree with dismounting and starting from scratch. Before you do anything note the amount of weight and the location on each wheel. I would probably go as far as spinning the wheels on the balancer first just to make sure they are round. Undoubtedly they should because Vin sells a quality product, but things happen. Once you see that they roll good then I would switch the wheels and tires around and have them remounted.

Lube is undoubtedly important and often skimped by tire jockies because they are in a hurry. They should always use generous amount of lube. You can never use too much lube. From there the proper way to inflate a tire is to remove the valve core, seat the bead and inflate to the max PSI. Then let all the air out, insert the core and inflate to the proper PSI. This gives the tire an inflation cycle and a chance for the bead to seat properly. A lot of techs cut corners and inflate with the core in and go. That works probably 99% of the time so on average you don't see a problem.

Then when they put them on the balancer, it is another critical step that they should use the special Toyota cone when they put them on the balancer. This cone has a special taper that fits nicely into the large center hole. Centering on the shaft is critical to an accurate balance. Because you are not putting weight on the outside, it is a static balance. No worries here, just the way it is. You/they need to watch the tires spin on the balancer. You can't balance out a hop. If it isn't smooth on the balancer then it won't be smooth on your truck. It might zero out in weight, but a hop is a hop. If that is the case then it is back to dismounting, rotating the tire 180 degrees on the wheel, lots and lots more lube, rinse and repeat. If there is still a hop, you have a bad tire. Rare, but it happens. Once all is good there then they mount them on your truck install the lug nuts finger tight and then following the proper torque sequence using a torque stick followed by hand torqueing.

That is really all there is too it. It isn't rocket science, but it has to be done right. If you still have a vibration, seriously look into the bushing replacement. That will give you intermittent vibrations that you feel in the pedal and in the seat. Mine was OK right after my lift and I felt it getting worse. Either it was getting worse or my neuroticism kicked in and I convinced myself that it was getting worse. In any case after replacing it, all was good again.

and no, the extra wheel width won't cause a vibration. However, tires get wear patterns and running a tire on a 7 then going to a 8.5 will cause it to roll differently. You have a 2020 so it isn't like you could have put many miles on them so no, I wouldn't worry about that at all. Had you put 40K on a set of tires and swapped wheels, yeah, it could be an issue, but I wouldn't worry.

 

Thanks a lot... I have only put app. 3000 miles on the tires with 7". I'm heading out to Discount Tires now...will report back in! Fingers crossed!

 

Toyo says excessive lube is a thing...
https://www.tirereview.com/battling-wheel-slip/

 

Are they using a cone and hood or collet and flange plate when they mount the wheel on the machine?
SCS wheels are lug centric; just because the bore is 106mm, does not make it a true hubcentric.

 

You lifted your truck so your driveline angles have changed. Do you have an axle shim in the rear? That is the first thing I was looking for when I was reading your parts list.

 

Actually SCS states that their wheels are hub centric. I love the video showing difference in how a wheel rolls on a balancer and how obvious it is that there is something wrong. Problem with most techs is they don't take the time to look. You see something rolling like that, you should stop. The first thing a savvy tech does is to short the hood switch on the balancer so he can watch the spin without closing the hood.

 

Yeah...I know what they state.

Does a true 100% hub-centric wheel have tapered lugs, such as the SCS?

At best, I would say they are 50/50, lug and hub centric...which mounting method do you use in that situation?

What happens when the hub bore center does not coincide with the lug circle center on a 50/50?

 

Shim the rear axle. Have you had them road force balanced or just a standard balance? The road force has fixed all my tire issues in the past and I run 255/80/17 E range tires....

 

I actually have them on my truck, while made in China like 90% of what we buy in the US, these seem to be above typical Chinese standards. Lug holes are bored out large enough to accommodate ET lug nuts. In any case if they are hub centric, they will center on the hub regardless of the lug style. The majority of OE lug nuts are conical seat with the exceptions like Toyota trucks using mag style and Honda which loves ball seat.

 

Did you use a cone and clamp or collet and lug plate?