water decarbonization

just plain tap water is all you need because it cleans by flashing cold water into steam as it hits the hot metal so using hot water makes it clean less effectively because the flash point is higher and it creates less steam

 

Well honestly i was thinking some expensive filtered crap, but i guess ill go with free. I've been lazy, and haven't touched the truck since last reply. It is something i still plan to do...in theory wouldn't warmer water "flash" easier and faster?

 

Isn't the flash point of water the same regardless of cold or hot based on its molecular properties?

 

Water doesn't have a flash point. It's non-flammable. It has a boiling point which doesn't change with initial temperature. It does change with air pressure and dissolved minerals. Less air pressure lowers the boiling point, dissolved minerals increases the boiling point.

The biggest impact on boiling point in this operations is the pressure in the cylinder. I don't know what the pressure is in there, but for comparison's sake water boils at about 250*F in a pressure cooker (30-40 degrees more than "normal").

Dissolved minerals don't boil and will be left behind as solids. I don't know how that impacts this operation, but I doubt it's beneficial.

 

Winner!!!

 

Well somebody is a smarty britches. J\k. I should of caught that about the flash point. my theory is (remember im just a dumb ironworker) wouldn't the hot water boil in a quicker moment than cold just cause it's already warm. And i would suspect that the minerals would just burn up.. My dos pesos.

 

At first i thought you guys were nuckin futs putting water into your intake, so i asked my boss at the shop if he has ever heard of doing it and he told me they used to do it all the time, Never on a FI engine just carbed, it was usually to deal with pre ignition/detonation(air fuel mixture being ignited by carbon build up being heated up from heat of compression)Says it worked really well. Im not sure how it would help your idling issue, computer controlled timing compensates for a lot on FI engines these days

 

Yeah, im still tempted to reset my cpu. But it would take a couple days to get the mileage in to actually reset. My ltft runs at about - 5 at idle, and when cruising its around 0. Now i know if its like neg 15-20 than i have a possible vacuum leak, but at what point does that start. I.e. Is -5 like a very tiny leak? Im between jobs, so i cant just swap my lines out yet, but thats soon to change.

 

negative on the fuel trim would suggest to me the opposite of a vacuum leak not that -5 is substantial enough to suggest anything, if it had a vacuum leak it would be on the positive side. what RPM does it idle at?

 

Yes, in theory. In this application I'm not sure it would be a measurable time period, though. Getting water to boil is a simple mathematical exercise. Heat is nothing but energy. To boil water you simply add enough energy to the water to bring its temperature to the boiling point. The warmer the water starts, the more energy it already has, and the less you have to add.

The amount of energy that needs to be added is affected by the mass of the water you are trying to boil. If you heat a skillet on the stove for a few minutes and flick water drops from your finger tips it boils very quickly and is gone. The large pan has a lot of stored energy, and there is a small amount of water. If you poured 3 cups of water into the same pan the first bit would sizzled and raise hell, but quickly the water would absorb the "extra" energy and stop boiling. You'd have to keep the fire under the pan, adding even more energy, to get the water boiling again.

The way you are talking about adding water for your decarbonization is in very small bits (quick little slurps through a vacuum line) to a system producing huge amounts of energy. The difference in starting temperature of that water in this case will make a theoretical difference in boiling time, but I doubt it will make a practical one.

And all of this is an academic discussion for me. I understand pretty well the science behind boiling water, but I don't know jack shit about a de-carboning an engine with it.

So, my point is don't get to overly worked up about what temperature water to start with. Do think about, or research, the potential impact of minerals in the water because I don't know anything about that. Then decide for yourself how best to do it, if you do it at all. Iron worker, garbage man, software developer (like me), or nuclear physicist, at some point you have to employ your own common sense and logic. Trust your gut, your research, and your common sense, then act.

 

Ok, ya i just reread about fuel trim. I got the pos/neg mixed up. Truck idles at 750 when warm and in park. 650 warm in gear. I posted a link to my other thread about my rough idle. I just picked up a bafx bluetooth obd2 dealy wap..and it showed that i ALMOST had a p0171 code friday. Light never came on. Ive already replaced my pre cat o2 sensor a few years ago with a non oem one. Maybe the other one is on its way..

 

Try the reset bud. Disconnect the battery cables and hook the negative and positive cables together for 15 min. At this time verify the throttle plates are clean and not binding. Connect the battery cables and start the vehicle and let it idle until it reaches operating temperature
Thats a cut and paste from a shop forum we use, its worth a shot

 

Last time I did that kind of reset, it tweaked my auto start a bit. Could always just pop that fuse/relay out first.

 

its like dropping water on a hot frying pan, weather its 70* tap water or 100* heated water is not going to make much difference in how it reacts when it comes into contact with the hot metal.

using hot water is pointless because of the small difference it makes, but in "theory" preheated water "should" turn to steam a few milliseconds faster since it must reach a high temperature to turn into steam. it just does it so quickly there is no measurable benefit in preheating the water.

 

I did this about 2 and half years ago when I first bought my 4Runner. I think I used the PCV hose if I'm not mistaken. Although instead of pure water, I used windshield washer fluid because of the methanol in it. I used one hand to hold the throttle open and hold the vacuum tube, and the other hand to slowly pour the washer fluid into. I remember I had a funnel jammed into the hose. I poured slowly, taking care to make sure the engine didn't bog down too much and flood out. I stopped after pouring in a half gallon because my hand eventually got tired. The whole process created quite a steam/smoke show for the neighborhood. I used to get 22mpg easy on the highway, rolling along at 70mph, roof rack off, and unloaded. Now I struggle to get 19-20mpg under the same conditions a couple years later. I suspect it's because I need to dump some more washer fluid into the motor again to clean things out, because changing both O2 sensor, plugs, wires, new air filter, and fuel filter have not restored my MPGs.

I would not recommend using tap water. It has minerals in it that may get left behind. Go to Walmart and pick up distilled water for cheap if you're dead set on using just water. I still say regular washer fluid (NOT DE-ICER) is the way to go.

 

That sounds a little odd. Plus, it doesn't sound like windshield washer fluid is helping, specially if it has killed your mileage.i wonder if it has to do with the soap in the fluid.. Ill stick to plain water. However i may try distilled water...

 

the distilled water isn't a bad alternative even though I don't feel it matters, again its instantly turned to steam, not staying liquid, the gas will leave more minerals and deposits behind then the tap water will.

some washer fluids have chemicals in them for bug removal and water runoff and beading that will leave far more harmful deposits left behind then tap water will.

if you run tap water through the coffee pot it becomes distilled water at that point and the filter catches any mineral deposits that might be there.

after all, distilled water is just boiled and filtered tap water

 

Killed my mileage? No, it helped my mileage. I had what I would consider above average MPGs, considering what other similar 4Runners are getting. My mileage has slowly declined to around 19-20mpg highway the past couple months, but remember this was back in 2012 that I did the steam cleaning. It could probably benefit from another steam cleaning to get it back to where it was.

Plain washer fluid doesn't have soap. It's just washer fluid and methanol.

 

I'm not talking about using Rain-X washer fluid or anything fancy. Just the regular blue stuff. It's just distilled water and methanol. No, it doesn't leave harmful deposits in your engine. Lots of people with turbos or superchargers use windshield washer fluid in their methanol injection kits...

 

Maybe i mis-interpreted, but i thought you said it killed your mileage. My apologies.