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Weak Link Tacoma clutch

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by 04Screamingeagle, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Jan 31, 2012 at 2:08 PM
    #1
    04Screamingeagle

    04Screamingeagle [OP] Member

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    Wanted to reach out and see if anyone else has experienced this, I own a 2010 x-cab 4x4 4cyl 5 sp. Under 20k.
    At my ranch in Northern NM at a 7500 elevation, pulling a single axle trailer with 4x4 on it. Total payload was less than 1500 pounds. I'm trying to get up the driveway, maybe 25 degree angle, 100 ft long. I try to drive up for the first time, I'm in 4lo, the Truck dies, restart and give it more gas. Truck stalls again, then I rev up a little higher and leet out the clutch, then I smell the clutch burning. I roll back to flat surface, start again, third the way up the truck stalls again. Rev up a little higher, smell the clutch burning again. I roll back again and try one more time and I'm sitting there and smell the clutch. One damn whimpy truck. It's a 4x4 and it's only 1500 pound of payload.
    I end up disconnecting the trailer, drive the truck up the driveway, pull the 4-wheeler off the trailer and connect the trailer to the 4-wheeler and pull it up the driveway with it. My 4-wheeler has more power than my Tacoma!
    I tell the dealer my clutch is slipping when I return back to Houston, they can't find a problem, boy I bet there's no one here that has heard this before!
    If I understand this they put the same clutch in the 2 wheel drive 4 cylinder as they do in the 4x4 4 cylinder? If so don't they know the clutch has to be twice as strong for the 4x4?
    I think Toyota has a Big screwup with this design. Anyone else think the same?
    I do also have other vehicles with a manual transmission.
     
  2. Jan 31, 2012 at 2:20 PM
    #2
    2004TacomaSR5

    2004TacomaSR5 Sentinel Prime

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    Never had this problem, but thanks for letting me know, I plan to eventually get a small camper like a Scamp to pull with mine, they only weigh like 900lbs without anything in them. Of course, soon I will be done with my 67 F250 I am working on, and it is going to do all the heavy hauling/towing duties
     
  3. Feb 2, 2012 at 12:57 PM
    #3
    Dustyroades

    Dustyroades Well-Known Member

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    Why were you in 4x4? Unless you start to slip it's not necessary. And I don't see why a clutch needs to be twice as strong for 4WD as 2WD. All the power of the engine has to go through the clutch, whether it is then split to 2 axles is irrelevant.

    Also 25 degree angle? The steepest highway grades I have seen are in the 10 degree range. If that number is accurate, that is your problem right there.
     
  4. Feb 2, 2012 at 8:51 PM
    #4
    badger

    badger Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure you were in 4lo and 1st gear? It sounds like you were in too high of a gear for the hill. 1st gear and 4Lo should have no trounle at all.
     
  5. Feb 2, 2012 at 9:03 PM
    #5
    2000GTacoma

    2000GTacoma Well-Known Member

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    thats what i was thinking. hell i can drop my 1st gen v6 in 4lo and 1st gear and turn 3000k rpm and only move a couple mph. it will idle up just about anything
     
  6. Feb 3, 2012 at 5:39 AM
    #6
    04Screamingeagle

    04Screamingeagle [OP] Member

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    Hi to all and thanks for the replies. I guess maybe I have to clear up some things. The driveway on my ranch is a rough cut dirt driveway about 100 foot long, somewhere around 20 to 25 degrees angle. To prevent rear tire slipage I would need 4 lo. Remember this is a 4x4 truck and I purchased it for this reason. Here in Houston TX. it's dumb to own and drive a 4x4 unless you off-road it. I am a 51 year old engineer and have been building cars since 15. Most all my rods are 4 and 6 speed manual trans, so the manual trans is nothing new to me. What I am figuring here, the Tacoma is 159HP and most of the production of the manuals are 2 wheel drive units. They use the same clutch in both the 2 wheel and the 4x4. ( as far as my research ) I didn't know this when I bought the truck. In a 2 wheel drive truck the rear tires will break traction most likely before the clutch slips, but in the 4x4 the clutch will have to be much stronger as the two front tires are not going to break free with most of the weight on them. There is going to be one heck of a load on the clutch. Now twice driving to northern NM and getting off road onto our ranch, where the 4x4 is needed, mud, snow, and some inclines. I am now finding out with a 1000 pound trailer on a incline that the clutch is slipping and the power is not getting to the trans to pull the truck.
    When I take the truck into the shop, they say they say we can't dupicate the problem. Sure you can't, your not putting a load onto the truck as I am. No trailer, and no incline. While writting this message I am at a dealership here in Houston this morning where they are tyring to dupicate the problem. I am hoping they will decide to pull it out and replace it. I'll post the out come later today.
     
  7. Feb 3, 2012 at 5:47 AM
    #7
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

    T@co_Pr3runn3r XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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    Good luck with this & hope you're not at Don Mcgill................
     
  8. Feb 3, 2012 at 5:54 AM
    #8
    mcgiiver

    mcgiiver Well-Known Member

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    This is a well documented problem on this forum. Do a search and you will find many others that had problems. The problem is defective clutches. Two clutches are installed in the vehicles, Luk or Aisin. The Luk, made in Mexico is the problem, The Aisin, made in Japan is fine. If your dealer won't replace it under warranty, find another dealer. Most report the problem in higher gears and cold conditions.
     
  9. Feb 3, 2012 at 6:30 AM
    #9
    04Screamingeagle

    04Screamingeagle [OP] Member

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    Thanks, I have researched this out and had found information. Forums like this can be so helpful when people have information to share. Showing Toyota that you have a serious problem isn't an easy thing to do sometimes. Driving this truck on a level paved road pulling nothing except it's own weight the truck is fine. I bought a 4x4 and need it to perform as a 4x4. A smart car will perform under the same conditions. Today will be an interesting day here at Fed Haas. I think if this model truck had a high production many people would be complaining. I told my wife her Honda Accord probably would out pull this 4x4 truck, maybe I'll do a video of something like this to prove to Toyota, a Honda Accord out pulling a Tacoma 4x4.
     
  10. Feb 3, 2012 at 10:05 AM
    #10
    AndrewFalk

    AndrewFalk Science!

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    Yes the clutch is a weak point. But the clutch does not need to be twice as strong to drive 2 additional wheels.

    I'm curious to see what Toyota does for you.
     
  11. Feb 3, 2012 at 10:50 AM
    #11
    Dustyroades

    Dustyroades Well-Known Member

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    The OP makes a good point, that with 2WD the tires may slip before the clutch is fully loaded. But I'm also not sure it needs to be twice as strong. Surely Toyota would size the clutch for 4x4 and on 2WD models it is oversized.

    Not sure what to think without actually seeing the hill and truck response the OP is describing.
     
  12. Feb 3, 2012 at 11:51 AM
    #12
    BlackSeven

    BlackSeven Grab your helmet, this shits about to get retarded

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  13. Feb 4, 2012 at 7:25 AM
    #13
    AndrewFalk

    AndrewFalk Science!

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    The torque being sent through the transmission is produced by the engine. Your engine outputs roughly 180 ft lbs of torque MAX. If you're in 2wd, the torque is divided towards two wheels. If you're in 4wd, the same amount of maximum torque is divided and sent to four wheels. The wheels provide resistance, but do not produce torque. (ie: the motor uses power to move the wheels, the wheels to do not produce power to move the engine)
     
  14. Feb 4, 2012 at 9:37 AM
    #14
    BlackSeven

    BlackSeven Grab your helmet, this shits about to get retarded

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    There is a known issue with the clutches in the 4x4 4cyl trucks, after test driving one with a bad clutch, I completely understand what the OP is talking about. T-SB-0066-11 Covers this issue, I'm having this TSB done on a truck I haven't even bought yet, but I want it as long as they replace the clutch. Only 5k miles on the truck too and the clutch is trashed.

    180ftlbs of torque is more then enough to pull a 1000lbs trailer up a hill.
     
  15. Feb 4, 2012 at 1:14 PM
    #15
    Dustyroades

    Dustyroades Well-Known Member

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    I thought the same thing until the OP pointed out with 2WD, the tires may start to slip before the clutch is under full load.
     
  16. Feb 4, 2012 at 1:22 PM
    #16
    tostidos

    tostidos Well-Known Member

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    It isn't the same clutch as the 4 banger, just ask the shop who did my clutch and ordered the wrong clutch.
     
  17. Feb 4, 2012 at 10:46 PM
    #17
    AndrewFalk

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    If you're in gear, revving the engine, something has to give way. Normally, it's the tires that move as you accelerate, but under certain circumstances it could be the clutch that slips instead. That doesn't change the fact that a maximum of 180 ft lbs of torque can be transmitted through the clutch by the engine. The wheels don't produce torque...4wd...2wd...it doesn't matter.
     
  18. Feb 4, 2012 at 10:48 PM
    #18
    AndrewFalk

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    This thread is about 4 cylinder Tacoma's. No one is arguing that the V6 and I4 use the same clutch. The question was asked whether or not the same clutch came in the 2wd and 4wd I4 models.
     
  19. Feb 5, 2012 at 9:31 AM
    #19
    04Screamingeagle

    04Screamingeagle [OP] Member

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    Thanks to all that have weighed in on this topic. Latest news, on Fri. I received a call from the dealership, Fred Haas where I took the truck in for service. They said they could duplicate the problem without a trailer or an incline. They had two of their best Techs looking into this matter and took the time to research the Tech Bulletins and drive the truck like a 4x4. It's really funny that none of the dealerships I called have these parts on hand. Fred Haas has ordered the parts to make the repairs next week. I did bring up the option of having the asian clutch assy installed instead of the US version. Not sure this is going to happen. I had gotten Toyota HQ involved in this matter due to the run a round at the previous dealerships. They are going to be in touch with me this Mon. I may request the asian clutch assy and see how far this goes. I drove a new 2012 tacoma 4x4 6 speed today as well. The clutch is Strong! Releases right off the floor, where mine is relaeasing right of the end of travel, like a worn out clutch. Second, the v-6 scratches second gear with no problem. There is night and day differences between my clutch and the new tacoma v-6. I will be glad to see the performace difference when they install the new clutch. I need the printout of the clutch numbers the Tech nad to fully understand which models have which clutch. There was many different numbers. I still don't think Toyota would put an over strength clutch into the two wheel drive units. They wouldn't be cutting costs like they normally do. Fot this moment I am going with this, the clutch in the 4x4 4 cylinder is under rated for the 4x4, but I hope I am wrong!
    I'll update in a week when Toyota makes the repairs.
     
  20. Feb 5, 2012 at 10:55 AM
    #20
    tostidos

    tostidos Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about that for some reason I thought he was referring to the V6.
     
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