Welded front end?

ok, I know there are a lot of strong opinions on this

Hear me out though, I would like some opinions, hopefully from someone who’s done it.

First off, this IS NOT a daily driver. It does get driven on the streets when I need a truck, and I drive it to the trail.

I’m thinking with the front ADD (which I just replaced with lots of help from this forum) Now that I understand the front ADD disconnects the right wheel from the diff when disengaged, I thought I should weld the front diff, and wire the ADD to a switch and use it like an E-locker when I need it on the trail. Otherwise I’ll be running in “3 wheel drive” when I lock in the T-case. That should allow me to be able to turn while on the trail, it shouldn’t affect the on road 2wd performance, and then I could use the ADD as a front E-locker.

The common syntament is that this mod will somehow eat CV axles. I agree that it will put more stress on them, but I don’t see how it’s anymore than any other locker would.

Alright, let it fly!

 

I forget who but someone here is running one. I had talked to him and he liked it in the mud.

I welded the rear without regrets and I contemplated doing the front but after consulting with my buddy who owns a 4x4/fabrication shop he recommended against it. Even though I have manual hubs and he told me that if I left one side unlocked on the trail it was likely that I would blow out the locked hub/CV based on his experience. He's a long time Toyota guy so I took his word and haven't tested fate.

 

The locker puts stress on the CVs too but at least with a locker (selectable one anyway) you can turn it on only when needed. If the front is welded the CVs are going to be stressed a lot more often which I imagine is going to exponentially increase the likelihood that one or both will break

 

I think having an open diff 4 wheel drive would be more advantageous than a 3 wheel drive with the ADD juryrigging thing.

Because if you need drive on that 4th wheel (the one that is disconnected), you'd have to "lock" the ADD, and you won't be able to turn very well because the front is locked.

Also, there's a lot of disagreement on if lockers actually put more stress on the CVs. Some would say that the sudden increase/decrease in wheel speed (a spinning open front that suddenly comes back down) puts more stress on a CV than having the locker (which controls and prevents excess wheel speed).

 

I can verify that a spinning wheel coming down breaks stuff, we were riding last weekend and my buddy blew his CV doing that. Skip to 11:30 if you care to see one go

https://youtu.be/ses33w1rCqs

 

A selectable locker is beyond a doubt the best solution, but I’m cheap. I guess the ultimate question is how durable are the CV axles with 34” tires

 

Sounds like a recipe for CV axle armageddon to me lol, I broke OEM CVs with an open diff and 32" tires...can't imagine a welded front with 34s is going to help. But only way to know for sure

 

Oh I've seen them go that way too.

But I've also seen people blow CVs with a locker, too. Like when you get bound up on like an overhang.

In the end, throttle control does a LOT to help prevent CVs from dying. Also only using a locker when needed.

 

Depends on how you drive. I'm sure there are people on 35s who don't break CVs, and plenty of people on stock 31s that do.

Locker or not, if you keep blowing CVs, it's time for SAS, or just bring a bunch of spares and get good at trail replacements.

 

Go with the Lincoln/Miller locker just upgrade to aftermarket heavy duty axles . All the vehicles I've had over the years has had a Lincoln/Miller locker or spool . No spool or welded diff in the Tacoma though , I've got a Detroit locker . The Camaro has a spool

 

This is the stupidest idea ever.

Lincoln locking a rear diff (welding) is done by those on the cheap and they usually fail at some point down the road. They are not nearly as strong as a full spool or a locker but for those without 2 nickels to rub together it is something that is done often enough. You literally are waiting for the spiders and cross pins to explode.

Now Lincoln locking the front that’s a whole new type of broke assed hillbilly shit. Considering the front steer axles have a lot more speed “differential” when turned the forces involved are almost always unequal which is what is going to explode everything. Now you run it in 2wd and try and turn. Everything will slip except the driveshaft is still turning. Now try 4 hi with the CAD (central axle disconnect) disabled. You turn and one side will bind with the rear end as it tries to push the front end. So the idea that everything will not be bound due to not connecting both front shafts together is flawed. Side to side the front tires won’t be bound up and fighting each other but the rear and the one front will.

I have run a selectable front locker (OX) which is open when unlocked. Worked great in my Jeep. For the front I would only ever do a selectable locker or open diff. Last front axle I popped was fine while locked but let go once unlocked, 2wd and making a turn back onto pavement. So don’t think that there isn’t some force going through the CV’s even while open or freewheeling. Add some driveline force and some binding and don’t act surprised when you are stuck far enough off road that no tow is possible and you have a huge repair bill. So you drive this to the trail which means you are going to have a failure either before you start wheeling, on the trail or on the drive home. Hell you might not get out of the driveway and onto the road in front of your house.

But please listen to everyone who says you will be fine and make sure the whole thing is documented (video) for our entertainment.

 

Not to mention, if you want to do this because it's cheap...if it doesn't work out then you're going to spend a bunch of money on new CV axles and a new front diff when you decide you don't want the welded one anymore. That could easily equal or exceed the cost of a selectable front locker.

 

Speaking as a Welder I have never seen a welded Differential that has not failed if you baby them you might get a little life

You want a locked front axle on the cheap do the SAS swap buy a bunch of the thirds and gears because when most explode the housing can be fixed although some have been beyond saving

The best thing it is your truck go for it if it makes you happy

 

I love it! Only took 11 posts to get randomly passionate over insignificant things...

I’m up in the air, but I am still considering this. If she explodes then it’ll be time for a SAS, but there’ll definitely be video for everyone’s entertainment.

 

No idea about welding the diff, but another cheap option is a spartan or other autolocker. I love mine. Cheap. Reliable. East to install. Ratchets in turns if there’s note much torque on the driveline. All the traction. Think I paid like $250 for it.

 

What were you looking for? Did my explanation of exactly why your idea would fail and how it would happen lack depth and detail? Your idea will result in catestropic failure. Your theory was flawed. It had decent concepts but it only addressed one source of binding and was ignorant of the front rear binding that occurs.

My mechanical assessment of your idea is bang on. Ignore it if you want but then why ask for opinions if you are only going to do it anyway?

Guy starts thread with:

So when you said let it fly you meant?

You got some opinions from someone who has run a front locker and someone who has blown more u-joints than I can count. I know when stuff breaks from operator abuse and when it breaks from bad design (and overstressed as well). Don’t want you stranded or paying a $200 or up to $1000 tow or recovery. One guy that wheeled with our group blew dozens of axle shafts because he was a mash the pedal moron. Another guy had a bad 4 link design and it broke on trail when it bound up. Literally was on the ground with the front axle immediately in front of the rear. Try and do a trail repair or get them to the trail head like that. I was a daily driver guy for a while and then moved onto having a trailer queen. I had massive lift and ate driveshaft u-joints like mad while running my shortened 2 joint shaft. I was getting less than 500km per joint. Trying to do it on the cheap cost me more in the long run. Went to a Tom Woods DC shaft and SYE and didn’t change a joint EVER again.

My point is I was the guy on the cheap. In pretty much 100% of the time I ended up doing things twice and going the way I should have first time. Cheaping out never paid off once. I finally learned to do it right from the get go. It will save you money in the end and you will get to enjoy it properly without constant breakdowns. I don’t want to discourage you from running a front locker. They are beyond awesome. IMO I feel the front locker will pull you up and over more stuff due to the weight of the motor over those tires. That’s my experience anyway. So do it right and do the locker properly. The other option will leave you broken down the only question is where.