What battery is in your 2017 TRD Off Road w/Factory Tow Package?

additional info
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2016-3rd-gen-battery-and-tow-package.407344/

 

think i'm gonna need a bigger lift

 

It comes down to the way batteries are and ohms law for current in parallel.

I was explained it today. Each battery is made up of a cell. Each cell makes 2.3v roughly. If you put batteries together in theory each battery becomes a cell and the combined are now a battery. You're weakest cell will determine everything. Think of power tools and your batteries. Once one cell fails whole battery is basically done.

Only started talking about it because for that battery bank at work they were testing today and part of the test was to discharge all 240 batteries in that bank and during which they monitor each battery. Wish I got a picture of it. Had a test lead to each one going back to a laptop.
From what I was explained one bad cell can effect upwards of 40% of the discharge capabilities.

Batteries are batteries obviously these were high amp hour batteries for a UPS but same thing would apply in any battery system.
That's how I was explained it by a group of guys who install these battery systems for hospitals and data centres. It is a bit confusing. And when it comes to batteries and DC it's pretty different compared to the AC we're taught about as electricians. It took me a while to grasp the whole concept/theory

 

Here's where I'm struggling with understanding this. Let's say we have batteries A and B, both lead-acid so a well known discharge/voltage curve, and they're of different capacities. Let's say A is the lower capacity.

Seems to me (again, not challenging but explaining where I'm struggling) that as the two provide current to satisfy the load battery A's supply voltage decreases. That suggests B would supply a larger portion of the overall current since it's maintaining its supply voltage better. A's ability to supply current lags behind B through the duration of the discharge, but both discharge.

An analogy might be two water columns of different capacities and different supply tubing diameters.

I = V/R would apply to the internal resistance and ability to supply current at particular voltages, but doesn't get into capacity. That's why I'm not seeing where Ohm's law in particular applies, though I'm sure something else does.

 

As compared to the 2nd gen, the 3rd gen has a smaller motor that uses thinner oil and more low friction components. I would imagine this is the primary reason for the battery downsizing.

 

Alternator....not battery

 

Snow on the ground. Air temperature would have been in the 0-5* C. Sounds like that affects the CCA readout?

 

Yes, any battery is more "punchy" when warmer and can supply more discharge load requirements.

 

CCA is Cold Cranking Amps. The temp they are measured is -18C. Batteries will have more cranking amps at temps higher than that.

 

Probably Watts law then. IxE would give you power.

In the case of discharge etc I'm not sure with the comparison of 24f and 27f.

In the case I'm thinking changing technology and different make up. Maybe better quality lead etc?
I know batteries don't discharge uniformly as well. They will discharge at one rate then almost completely drop off.


Could be they put the plates at different spacing and different size plates which could effect the output.

I mean hey look at cell phones lol. Remember the size of old Nokia phones with the like 800mah barriers? Now we have phones with 2300mah that are much thinner AND lighter. I'd imagine in the case of 24f vs 27f that plays a big part

 

P = VI Not sure what E is? Is that a zed vs zee thing perhaps?

Still doesn't get into battery chemistry.

I'd think they'd use the same battery chemistry for 24F vs 27F vs other automotive sizes, as in I can't think of why they wouldn't. They're of different physical size, though, which allows more plate surface and thus capacity in the larger units (27F).

Discharge curves vary by the chemistry. You're correct that lithium-ion tend to have a fairly flat discharge curve with a sharp dropoff. Lead-acid is substantially more linear. Have a look here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_measure_state_of_charge

Cell phones have progressed from nickel-cadmium through nickel-metal-hydride through lithium-ion to lithium-polymer technologies to get those capacity improvements. 24F vs 27F should be the same chemistry with the differences due to physical size and perhaps internal layout.

 

The batteries in that picture I posted were lead acid as well and the guys said they will discharge linear from 600V to 408-401V after that they will drop off to 300V quick. Part of our testing for commissioning was to run from 600V for 15 min, couldn't drop below 408V after that (as long as it didn't fail) we then continue to run it down to 390V where the UPS is set to shut down if supply drops that low.


in electrical theory (at least from what I did through trade school) Voltage is expressed as 'Energy' hence E in all the equations.

At that point not sure then. I've worked wtih the batteries for UPS and battery banks so different design than auto batteries. So for the discharge point of a single battery not entirely sure. But where I was saying because it was in parallel to @0210 was because he was saying he didn't get why running a lawnmower battery in parallel with his other caused a weaker system. That's where the batteries become more of a 'cell' and the two togehter form the 'battery'


Could just be the chemistry of the 27F to 24F. I haven't looked at buying them so not sure but from what others were saying in here its a limited market? So maybe the 27F is dying technology and all the new modern tech is in the 24F hence why they are getting a better discharge.

 

I fly planes that use Lipo batteries, small light volatile if punctured, discharged or charged improperly. I notice they are making lithium batteries for motorcycles and even jump start kits/packs now. The issue with Lipo batteries is the storage voltage, each cell needs to be around 80% unless your going to use it, a few hot days at full charge and they can get a stint in teh cell and it wont have the storage capacity it did before hand. I noticed my newer battery tender has a option for these newer batteries but unless you ride a lot I think you will end up loosing the capacity they are sold at. I work in a DC environment, everything I work on is DC. 48/52 volt mainly, and my hobby takes me into 30+ volts with 100+ amps. I wouldnt want a Lipo/Lilo type battery in my truck, lead acid works well except for the weight.

 

1) Your lights dim sometimes when you brake because the off roads have an electric brake booster for the crawl control; it draws a lot of power.

2) The battery is kind of a low powered POS; just get a new tray and a nice AGM battery in a couple years

 

Right, lead-acid has a measurable linear drop in voltage for much of it's capacity then does drop sharply near the end of its capacity. Contrast to the lithium technology curve in the link I posted which has very little voltage change while discharging until the very end.

Interesting. In all my electrical engineering & physics coursework it was V, also when I was obtaining my advanced class amateur radio license. That was all a while back, and may a US/CA difference as well.

Seems like it'd confuse things a little though since volts are a measure of electromotive force; Joules are the measure of energy.

*shrug* Again not debating, just finding the differences curious.

When I looked at them it seemed they were merely different physical sizes of lead-acid batteries. Sort of like AA vs AAA alkaline batteries.

Have a look at these two batteries and tell me if I'm missing something? I just see size/weight/capacity differences and it seems both are AGM, so it seems the chemistry would be the same, no?
http://buy.northstarbattery.com/p/nsb-agm-27f-battery
http://buy.northstarbattery.com/p/nsb-agm-24f-battery

 

Northstar 24F and rest.

 

Could be a US Canadian thing for sure. Hell I've got transformer cards for KVA ratings etc for all Canadian manufacturer and all of them have the equations as E for voltage.

Could also just be from trade? We don't look at Joules haha. Just Watts for resistive loads and kvars for inductive and capacitive loads.

Chemistry could be different if it's an older line right? Maybe using a different concentration of acid? Not sure.

 

Probabaly we'll never know. Certainly could be trade too as you suggest.

In further research, 24 and 27 are simply different battery case sizes. F designates the positive terminal being on the other side.

See https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/bci-battery-group-sizes.html

For clarity when I say chemistry I'm referring to the macro level of lead plus acid vs nickel plus cadmium type stuff. There are certainly refinements within lead acid batteries such as plate design/structure, gel-cell, absorbed-glass-mat, etc. which affect things like avoiding leaks or ability to deep-cycle the battery. The core chemistry remains the same as far as I know. Check out http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/battery-specific-gravity-test.html

 

If I had room under the hood I'd have two 6v gc2 batteries paralleled. 225 aH each, that's a power pack. Could put them in the bed I guess, those are strong batteries, used in trailers running two of them right now better than two 12v's in series. They keep putting out the amps