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What is considered BAD Fuel Economy for the 2.7 Liter?

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by bobinyelm, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. Dec 19, 2020 at 12:04 AM
    #81
    RysiuM

    RysiuM Well-Known Member

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    In my truck gearing 5th gear at 50mph gets about 1800rpm. I own it since 1998 and since new it is completely pointless to switch to fifth gear before 50mph. There is zero acceleration. It is not a tourque thing, the power needed to overcome the drag at 50mph is not there below 1800rpm. Actually Toyota made if easy for me as the rule for my truck is simple: minimim speed for 2nd gear is 20mph, for 3rd is 30mph, 4th is 40 and 5th is 50. It's true that 2.7 is not like motorcycle engine and the torque is available from 1500 rpm, but the power is good enough to accelerate only at lower vehicle speed. 45mph needs much more power than what engine makes at 1500rpm.

    Actually that power curve of 2.7 is great compromise between diesel and gas engine. The torque starts at 1.7k rpm and goes all the way to over 5.5k rpm - perfect for acceleration from 40 to 75 on the same gear (full throttle passing). But not on 4th and not on 5th. These gears are for cruising only.

    I know you will say you have A/T with completely different gearing but these numbers should give you some idea what to expect from this engine. Just add one more fact that AT will steal more power than MT.

    And remember it is still 4 cyl engine, not V6 or V8 so it needs more rpm to perform - really do not expect any serious power below 2500rpm.
     
  2. Dec 19, 2020 at 12:12 PM
    #82
    bobinyelm

    bobinyelm [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm...

    I am not going to say mine has "completely different gearing," but 45mph mine has not shifted up to a high enough gear to be at 1500 or so. I think mine is at around 2000-2200 at 50, then at 52/53 shifts to OD T/C Lockup. I'll have to drive it and record the actual RPM at shift points to be sure. If mine IS at higher RPMs at lower speeds, that's good better drivability and probably neutral for MPG as while lower RPM cruising is usually more economical, at some point it's not, and a few more RPM actually produce better specific fuel consumption (Pounds of fuel burn per hour per horsepower produced). That's one reason I purchased the Goodrich T/As in size 7.35/75-15 as the stock 31/10.5-15 tires are larger diameter, effectively gearing the truck up (reducing cruising speed engine RPM).

    And YES, until torque converter lockup it DOES steal power, though at very low speeds (like towing a heavy trailer from a stop or crawling uphill), since a torque converter "adds" power (since the slippage enables the engine to be at a higher rpm for more torque, which is like slipping the clutch to start off, but without the aroma of burning clutch and resulting warped pressure plate and flywheel). But once under way until T/C lock-up you're 100% right.

    The bigger tires LOOK good, and provide maybe an inch of additional ground clearance for off-road use, but frankly 95% of my miles are on pavement and the only off-road use it sees is on Forest Service trails here in W. Washington, when my Subaru was more than adequate (and had a far more comfortable ride on the rutted and somewhat pot holed State Forest Roads). Really never need low range on them at all. In fact during the decade I lived in Alaska we had a saying about 4WD in general- "What does 4WD get you?" The reply was "About 50ft and a chance to use your winch," but frankly we all HAD 4WD there anyway, as if nothing else made vehicles more stable on the snow/ice covered roads that persisted almost all winter that were never powered bare, or sanded (which just made a MESS of them except in cities near traffic lights where you had to stop and start).
     
  3. Dec 19, 2020 at 12:50 PM
    #83
    Wsidr1

    Wsidr1 Well-Known Member

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    @bobinyelm

    Do you drive with the ECT button engaged? If not, why not? Seems you might be happier with truck performance doing that.
     
  4. Dec 19, 2020 at 1:31 PM
    #84
    Steves104x4

    Steves104x4 Well-Known Member

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    BUCKLE UP! It makes it harder for Aliens to pull you out of your Truck.
    Make sure the spark plugs are good and tight. Check and change rubber hoses with dry rot. Clean the MAF and check driveshaft U joints are all good. Throw a Trans-Go shift kit into the transmission, slap some high-pressure gas shocks at each corner and drive that bitch
     
  5. Dec 19, 2020 at 1:51 PM
    #85
    bobinyelm

    bobinyelm [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Actually I do not.

    In fact when I went out today to take RPM vs Speed I pushed ECT for the first time at 60mph. The button stayed "in" about 1/16" to tell me it was engaged, but at that speed nothing changed. I meant to try seeing if the shift points changed, but I forgot to do that before getting home.

    Should there be a dash light to indicate ECT is ON? I didn't see one, and will have to get an owner's manual to see what it says about it. I know it's supposed to tailor the transmission response for towing is all I know about it.

    BTW, here are the RPM readings I got.
    ALL were taken at minimum steady-state throttle to maintain the plotted speed on a level road.
    If I added about an inch or so of additional throttle, the RPM increased by 250 RPM, but no acceleration was noted.
    This is undoubtedly the slippage in the torque converter from the additional torque produced by the engine, because
    adding MORE throttle did not add more RPM until the transmission kicked-down in gear. Up to kick-down acceleration was
    barely noticible (maybe 1-2mph was gained before s-l-o-w throttle application caused the kick-down and the truck slowly
    accelerated (mostly noise rather than acceleration).

    Pressing the OD Cutout switch produced the SAME RPM increase as kickdown. At 50mph one gear lower RPM increased from 2000 to 2500rpm (steady-state). Result was similar from kick-down, or OD-Off activation.

    Speed Min Throttle RPM at Same
    Steady Speed With Increased
    RPM Pedal (before kick-
    down into lower gear)

    25mph- 1500rm 1750rpm
    35mph- 1500rpm 1750rpm
    45mph- 1750rpm 2000rpm
    50mph- 2000rpm 2250rpm
    52mph I could feel the T/C lock-up and rpm dropped With the T/C Locked, additional throttle did not cause rpm gain due to lock-up.
    60mph- 2300 rpm (With the T/C Locked, additional throttle did not cause rpm gain due to lock-up).

    As stated, kick-down or OD-Off produced only mild acceleration and considerably more engine sound (no abnormal sounds-just louder).

    The Interstate was very crowded due to Christmas traffic I guess, so I couldn't do max speed in gears test as I wanted to.

    Next time I will try ECT from a dead stop to see if shift points are altered. At 60mph engaging ECT did noting noticible.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
    RysiuM likes this.
  6. Dec 19, 2020 at 2:21 PM
    #86
    bobinyelm

    bobinyelm [OP] Well-Known Member

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    First thing I did when I got the truck (showed misfire codes) was do plugs and wires. Examined all rubber hoses. Just recently changed thermostat (holds the same temp but seems to warm-up a bit faster) and flushed the coolant w/ LL Toyota Red, but the hoses were great. MAF threw no codes, but I sprayed it with MAF Cleaner for "good measure" anyway. Checked for any intake leaks that could be causing vacuum leaks. I need to do OBD II Live Data for STFT and LTFT to see if the ECU is trying to compensate for unmetered air entering the engine- I haven't done that yet, but in any case if it were excessive it should throw a DTC and a Check Engine.

    Oh yes, I also changed the ignition switch lock cylinder, which sometimes would not let me turn the key at all. I'd have to slide in in/out wiggle it, tap on it, to the point I was afraid I'd strand myself somewhere unable to start the truck. All I had were after-market keys, so I went to my dealer and had them cut me a new Toyota genuine key using the key code that matched my VIN#, but it wouldn't work any better, so bought a new cylinder w/ new keys and it's OK now-I understand this is common on Toyotas. BTW, Toyota wanted $178 for the cylinder and 2 keys, but I bought a Dorman after-market for $32 on Amazon which looks identical and works perfectly.

    I'll look up Trans-Go. Not familiar.

    I DO WISH there were a chip or easy way to adjust the mixture slightly or alter the shift points. I did a chip change on some vehicles when it was possible and it really woke them up and I even got BETTER MPG.

    Just a week ago when I had the truck on my lift, I carefully examined each driveline joint for play or rust bleeding out of a bearing cups, and there was none. I greased all 8 (as memory serves) Zerk fittings until grease came from each cup or the slined fittings got 4 strokes of grease. Also replaced Dif fluid with synthetic 75-90 Gear Oil (a lot less viscous than what drained out, which I suspect by viscosity and smell was 90 weight hypoid oil). The Dif took 2 quarts (!) so I didn't have enough for the Transfer Case, but will do that the next time I have the truck in the air.

    The truck has TRD springs and shocks (TRD headers also), but does NOT had a differential lock, and the suspension feels like new. Shocks are incredibly tight (decent ride, but no slushy response or leakage), and suspension is tight (no play when checked manually, and no rattles or clicks). Only FLAW is a bit of play measured at steering wheel rim, but checked that and it is all in the collapsable steering column slide-joint (most people tack weld the upper and lower portions to remove all play, hoping if in a BAD front end collision the tacks will break and allow tromboning of the column for safety. SEE: There is also a YouTube that shows it step-by-step.

    Other than the slight steering play (which I AM going to do), and the power issue (I guess my MPG is in the normal range, so I doubt better than 16mpg is possible in suburban/country driving.) the truck really DOES drive like a brand new truck. These things are amazing (as have been all of my several Japanese trucks over the years w/ regard to durability).

    Thanks,
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
    RysiuM and Steves104x4[QUOTED] like this.
  7. Dec 19, 2020 at 2:27 PM
    #87
    Steves104x4

    Steves104x4 Well-Known Member

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    BUCKLE UP! It makes it harder for Aliens to pull you out of your Truck.
    Can’t ask you to do much more than that.
     
  8. Dec 20, 2020 at 6:42 AM
    #88
    Wsidr1

    Wsidr1 Well-Known Member

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    Not being argumentative/sarcastic, just answering a few questions from your post. If you've already been driving, you probably already know these, but:

    I pushed ECT for the first time at 60mph. Yeah, little value pushing after it would have hit overdrive+ about 5-10mph. That's normal.

    Should there be a dash light to indicate ECT is ON? Mine (95.5) is in the lower RH corner and is green in color "ECT". Not sure about all model years.

    ...see if shift points are altered. Unless there is a malfunction, yes, the shift points will be altered. "ECT" stands for "electronically controlled transmission". The shift points are delayed in order to support towing. I know a lot of members on here have said they run theirs engaged all the time and report almost no impact to fuel economy, but increased driving satisfaction. You might give it a try on several tanks and see impact vs your driving patterns and speeds.
     
  9. Dec 20, 2020 at 10:22 PM
    #89
    bobinyelm

    bobinyelm [OP] Well-Known Member

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    (Responses Above in "Click to Expand" Section)

    Thanks-

    I will check these out tomorrow. I appreciate the useful information. I probably have maybe 150mi on the truck since refurbishing it-certainly under 200. Filled the tank almost immediately after getting it "done" (same station, same position, filled until it clicked off same # of times to be consistent), refilled it and calculated MPG. I admit to being rather bummed out at the throttle response and MPG and came here to ask. I probably won't be driving it THAT many miles given the # of vehicles I have (though most stay inside in crappy weather, so here that is Mid-Oct to Mid-April when I use my '99 CR-V w/ 200k miles as my daily driver*).

    BTW, I also bought a Fuel Filter for it, and a YouTube said the filter was mounted near the frame rail mid-truck, but darned if I could find it from under looking up. Didn't look in the engine compartment- Am I blind?

    Bob
    *Shameless plug- I never would have believed a vehicle could have 200k and run/drive like new and still not have dripped it's first drop of oil on the driveway (though it did have drops on the pan bolts that would soon have likely dripped, so I replaced the pan gasket last weekend before it did leak). I am more used to German cars that CAN last a long time, but do like some fussing (new ones are crap though IMHO), and many English cars that practically needed a nanny to clean up after them even when almost new.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  10. Dec 20, 2020 at 10:50 PM
    #90
    Tacoma1997White4x4

    Tacoma1997White4x4 America First

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    nothing wrong, I believe the tacoma mpg comes from the bonestock 4 bangers the 5 lug manuals or the old toyota pickups which got 25mpg, yes the 1st gen 4 banger is a 4 banger but the wheels, tire, lift, 4x4 and the truck is bigger makes the mpg 16. I have a 97 reg cab 4x4 auto I get 16 all the time. If you want to save gas then get the manual but the auto will get less by 1-2 mpgs and turning on the ac doesnt help. Nothing wrong with it
     
  11. Dec 21, 2020 at 3:18 PM
    #91
    betterbuckleup

    betterbuckleup Well-Known Member

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    Did all 2.7L come with the ECT power button? Mine's a 5 speed and is missing it. Could have been from the PO dash swap though.
     
  12. Dec 21, 2020 at 3:29 PM
    #92
    Kevin Jones

    Kevin Jones Well-Known Member

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    Good question as I've had my '96 2.7 for 24 years and 414,000 miles and have never checked the fuel mileage.
     
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  13. Dec 21, 2020 at 4:11 PM
    #93
    RysiuM

    RysiuM Well-Known Member

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    You have M/T. ECT button is for shifting points in A/T. Your ECT is sitting between the driver sit and the steering wheel :rofl:
     
  14. Dec 21, 2020 at 4:31 PM
    #94
    betterbuckleup

    betterbuckleup Well-Known Member

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    Ah gotcha gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Always wondered about that button. :thumbsup:
     
  15. Dec 21, 2020 at 11:37 PM
    #95
    bobinyelm

    bobinyelm [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Took the truck out today and sure enough, the green light ECT is there, and the other day when I tried it, it was hidden by my right hand on the steering wheel.

    I did several drive cycles ECT Off and On but frankly I did not see any difference at all in shift points or rpm vs mph, but it was a nasty day of rain, and I was driving conservatively, so maybe the shift points are only altered under heavier throttle?

    If these WAS a difference today it was very subtle and I missed it. Maybe if I did several controlled runs and carefully recorded readings they would show a difference.

    I am totally satisfied that my mpg is normal. The reason I guess I thought it was not is by virtue of far bigger, far heavier 1/2 and 3/4 ton pickups I've owned were far more powerful and got far better mileage. I can only conclude that Toyota in the 90s was then incapable of building powerful and efficient engines, though they were obviously very sturdy but must have been rather primitive designs despite being DOHC and EFI. Obviously since then they have learned, since my stepson's 2015 Tundra 1794 Edition 4WD crew cab can do 15 driven carefully and has LOTS of power. That said, he paid $58k and I have $5k in my Tacoma, so I can't complain. You can buy a lot of gas for the price difference!

    I guess with variable val timing and better EFI control of the latest versions they match the power and economy of V8 carbureted engines of the 80s that I had (Ford P/Us and Chevy Suburbans). That said, those US vehicle engines were pretty much used up by 150-175k miles and needed rings and bearings, whereas the Toyotas just keep going, so a little extra gas is easier to pay for than doing the engine work. Interestingly, I had an '75 FJ40 and no matter what I did on that I never basted 15mpg vs a '71 CJ5 V6 that did 20mpg, but again the FJ was a far superior build (Wish I still had it today!).
     

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