What the hell ''flexy frame'' means????

This thread was about the strength of the Tacoma, changing the subject does not change the fact that on many important specifications related to durability, it is not first, or even second.....

I never stated it has better resale, it does not. But the fact is the Frontier has better specification brakes, transmission, rear diff, frame, and tailgate. Those are just the facts.

First off, you know that is BS. It is a lighter weight F-Alpha platform frame. Why do you think the Frontier weighs more?

Your one allegedly bad trans does not change the fact that the input torque spec on the Fronty's trans is way higher, as well as not having wide spread shifting issues, requiring reprogramming (09-10's). It has proven to be an extremely tough unit. The Tacoma's trans is not bad, but the Nissan's is superior.

I had a Nissan till it was 14 years old, living in the rust belt. It was a fantastic truck, and only ever had problems with the intake heater gasket. Sold it to buy a Dodge, oops.

 

HD fullsize trucks have c-channel frames (F250+, 2500+, etc....)

And the Taco tranny is shared with the LX470 and is made to handle a 4.7 V8. I think it has a good tranny.

Taco stops quicker than the frontier. I don't care about brake specs. Most people get over 80,000 miles on their front pads on Tacos. Brakes are fine in my book.

Non e-locker rear diffs have proved reliable.

Oh yea, the Tacoma doesn't look like a joke.

 

Just ignore him, hopefully he'll turn in his leased truck pretty soon and do us all a favor so we don't have to hear about the next thing he breaks or moans about.

 

Really? I have the transmission from a V8 in my tacoma. Does the frontier have that too?

The metal bed probably helps a metric fuck ton.

 

1. Oh really then why did your brought up Frontier here with mentioning of brakes. I am not changing the subject. Quality of manufacturer is a quality of manufacturer. I would not trust company to make a decent truck if their other cars are POS.

2.Again with twisting what you said reread your own post. New car brochure specification dont mean a thing when you are buying used car. Doubt car has the same torque or HP after 70k miles on it, resale value is based on the fact how many people are willing to buy the car used, thats why American cars in general dont have good re-sale value since after warranty expires they are money pits

3. I have warped rotors to prove it and countless stories from stores and other owners of Nissan. 20k and warped rotors. Thats FORD quality right there

4. Are not Nissan still using a steel bed vs what plastic one like Tacoma, what do you think is the weight difference ?

5. Nissan tranny ? Man see how many people had tranny issues. Go try replace the tranny filter. Nobody does that and trannies are failing. Good luck to anybody who is planning to buy used Nissan because new redesign its going to make Nissan on par with Ford in tranny issues, there goes your resale value.
6. And last funny bit You had Nissan that was 14 years old

its 2010 right now

 

Ok when they say the frame is flexy that means it will twist when you are on angle that makes the suspension flex the frame will twist a little but its nothing to worry about. This dose not cause wheel hop

 

I had a 1988 hardbody, followed by a 1992 Dakota, Then a 2004 Civic Lx, then a new 2005 Frontier SE 6 Speed manual, followed by a 1996 Dakota SLT, then a 2009 Tacoma, and now a 2010 Tacoma.

 

It (Frontier) has the same auto trans as the QX56, with and input torque rating of over 400 ft/lbs. The trans in the Taco is the one that came on the lo-po 4.7L V8 from the Tundra (etc).
Never mind the fact that the 6 speed comes with a nice overdrive, (70 mph @ 2000 rpm), where the Yota has a shorter 6th, and numerically higher axle. The 6 Speed Frontier gets exceptionally good mileage if driven prudently.

Take a look at the Frontier frame, regardless of what you may think of the truck, it has beefy parts. Don't forget the weight of the tailgate......

 

Instead of flaming me for putting out the facts, realize that when I bought my Taco, I though it to be the best, because of quality and reputation. It could be said that it has a reputation that is greater than the sum of it's parts. Which is great for those who will never test the assumption that it can take rough treatment. I now have a truck that stickers for $37G, and I am canceling the death valley off roading I had been planning for years, because my diff blew after 2 hours off road, and I don't trust it anymore. So I'm not here to bash, I'm just a very disappointed customer. Had I read posts from some people who where finding the weak points before I bought, I would have bought something tougher, possible inferior, but tougher.
I do not have the choice to sell, it's a lease, so I will continue to put facts out there, and folks can read from both sides, not just the Kool-Aide drinkers....

 

I think the issue is you're presenting your opinion as fact.

You do not know the torsional, crossload, or longitudinal strength of the Frontier or Tacoma frames. Or if you do, you have failed to mention them, and if you do know them I'd like to know your sources.

You claim that the Frontier frame looks and feels beefier. Fine. That's your opinion, and that's valid...as an opinion. But you have no numbers from either your own data, or tests by any other group, showing that one component is stronger than the other objectively, if they are different at all. Once again, rigidity and thickness of material are not the only factors at play here, and may not necessarily give the best result depending upon application.

Instead of saying "the fact is", you should be stating "I don't know, but my opinion based on my experience is".

That would probably ameliorate a lot of the issues going on in this thread.

 

Fully boxed frame from the full sized Titan, (that has load capacity of almost a 3/4 ton), is not comparable to a 2/3 boxed flexy Tacoma frame. I don't feel that is debatable........
(The Fronty does not even include bracing for the OEM hitch, as the tail section is very beefy).

 

2004 Nissan Titan SE Crew Cab payload: 1453#

source: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/01/22/177688.html

 

Same frame design, different dimensions. The F-Alpha was shrunk from the Titan's specs to be used in Frontier applications. If it's a complete scale-down, that means the thickness of the steel in the frame may very well have been downsized as well.

To wit: *I don't know*. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't.

Your feelings on what makes something debatable are yours to have, but kind of silly. The Tundra's C-Channel frame results in a truck with a payload over a ton...how did they possibly spec higher than the Titan without going fully boxed?!?

Once again: Boxed vs. C-Channel means almost nothing in terms of strength. There are too many other factors to consider. Were the same alloys, heat/chemical treatments, and forging processes used to construct the frame components? Were the frames assembled using the same welding methods? What about the same grade of hardware components in terms of bolts and rivets where applicable? IF the Frontier's boxed frame is more rigid, does it suffer more stress damage from repeated flex cycles?

What ends up being "stronger" again depends on the stresses being applied, and how they are applied. If you bent both frames over an I beam, the Taco's frame may very well deform first. If you subject both frames to cyclical torsion (i.e. twist, untwist, twist, untwist, repeat say 10,000 times), the Frontier's frame may very well develop repetitive stress damage first because it's rigidity does not allow it to respond to torsional stress without material deformation.

Again, sit down to lunch with some materials or mechanical engineers (better yet, both) and ask them about the situation. You may be surprised how black and white the situation isn't.

 

Sorry for your dissapointment but, if you want to do any offroading beyond two track puddle jumping and the ocassional foray through the mud/sand then it might benefit you to choose a purpose built vehicle or build yours up. Might I suggest a UNIMOG,Pinzgauer or a pre78 FJ40? All of these vehicles are purpose built, although lacking most creature comforts they are all very capable. Sounds to me that you expect the truck to be a trail ready offroad machine, in short, they aren't, not by any stretch.
It's all about expectation my friend and I'm not gonna bash you with opinion but, the tacoma is a light truck, nothing less, nothing more, within that it has inherent limitations. I have run trucks offroad for over 20years in Ohio and the midwest and I can tell you that I would absolutely destroy my 2010 "offroad TRD" truck on some of the stuff we run. I believe the ATRAC system would prolly die a horrible death either before or after the rearend blew and then, it would get ugly . That's what I have kept my modified 78 FJ40 for. If you drive offroad and push it, chances are you'll find a vehicles limitations sooner or later, regardless of what you drive ie: break shit. These days, to say one is better that the other harkens me back to the old chevy vs. ford arguments of my youth

Don't believe the hyperbole either way, take things with a grain of salt and you'll be alright. My 2cents FWIW, if you want to drive the truck hard then you might want to look into modifying the vehicle for the task at hand. I realize that $37k is a chunk-o-change but mfgs today build a comfy cuddly version for the masses. I kinda feel like they really stopped building real "trucks" for everyone a very long time ago. The only things "truck" about my 2010 Taco compared to the ones from 20 yrs ago is the basic shape and crappy mileage.

But ya know what, mines really pretty, it drives fantastic and it makes my ass look great. Guess I'm getting a little vain in my old age eh? All in all I really, really like my new Taco, plus my boys really dig it!

 

All else being equal, boxed is better. As far as specs go, guess who keeps their's a secret.....Hmmm. That's right, the company that has been buying back, and replacing them. A historical first for the automobile , I might add.
The Fronty is a shortened version of the F-Alpha platform. The Frontier also uses high-tensile steel, which i am guessing the Taco uses as well?

 

At least you see it for what it is, many seem to have blinders on. I only do lite mudding, and sand. My diff that went, went without reason. I beat the hell out of my Fronty, and other than the fact that it was a rattle box, it was tough.

 

But see, that's the thing - all else is very much not equal.

Due to rust, which has nothing to do with frame strength. I'm not saying the rust situation is ok - it is not - but no material is immune to chemistry or physics.

Operative word: guessing.

Also "high tensile steel" still isn't specific. To give you an example, both T6061 and T7075 Aluminum alloys are considered "high strength" alloys, but have very different properties when it comes to ductility, tensile strength, etc.

Look here at the differences in 1000 to 8000 series aluminum alloys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy#Wrought_alloys

Steel alloys are pretty similar, and vary just as much, as you can see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_alloy#Material_science

So saying "high tensile steel" doesn't really tell us anything. And without knowing these details, all other guessing is pointless.

What I'm trying to say: Leave the engineering to the engineers. We don't know nearly enough to draw any meaningful conclusions.

 

Reminds me of that Ford Propaganda video where they showed how much bigger and better their aluminum bolt was than a competitors steel bolt.

 

I have no illusions as to what the vehicle is and is not, however, my past experience with toyota products has been excellent and I'm satisfied so far with my decision. My 2010 is filled with "nanny" systems to protect the average driver errr,,,, company from liability in the event of failure. I like to drive my vehicles so getting used to a machine that "helps" is going to take a bit of adjustment.

Nissan builds a good product and I have friends that swear by them, I'm just not in any rabid brand camp and can only talk from my experience with different vehicles and situations.
But then again, if you wanna start a Landcruiser vs. Jeep argument then

it's ON! LOL!!!

cheers,

Mike

 

x2

Well said.

In a debate it helps to support it with facts and references to published technical documentation. I am a stickler for what is and what is not written.

As far as this argument is concerned I have seen nothing to convince me that the Tacoma frame is inherently weak. It has an issue with rust, but not integrity. If there was this forum would be filled with people who have broken their frames, and it just has not happened.

That said. The frame will flex as Freeze and MonkeyProof have both attested to.

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