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Which Was Worse: Iran/Contra or Operation ‘Fast and Furious’?

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by Packman73, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. Jul 17, 2011 at 1:41 PM
    #1
    Packman73

    Packman73 [OP] ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    Which Was Worse: Iran/Contra or Operation ‘Fast and Furious’?

    by AWR Hawkins
    In the summer of 1985, persons within the Reagan administration sold hundreds of anti-tank missiles to Iran in exchange for the release of an American hostage named Benjamin Weir. For more than a year afterward, hundreds upon hundreds more missiles and missile parts were sold for the release of other hostages being held in Iran as well.
    [​IMG]
    The money received for the missiles was then sent to Contras in Nicaragua to support their efforts against the communist Sandinistas. (The Sandinistas were revolutionaries who had seized power in Nicaragua a year before Reagan was elected president, while the Contras were counter revolutionaries whom persons inside the Reagan administration were relying on to curb the further spread of communism.)
    With subtle changes along the way regarding the price paid for the weapons, the way the weapons were delivered, and the recipients of the weapons, the sales to Iran and the flow of money to the Contras continued unabated for over a year.
    Then, in late 1986, everything came to light and what we all know now as the “Iran/Contra scandal” was underway. It would result in an independent prosecutor, Lawrence E. Walsh, charging 14 members of the Reagan administration, 11 of whom were convicted: included in these 11 were “employees of the National Security Council staff, the Department of Defense, the Department of State, and the Central Intelligence Agency.”
    Reagan was not found guilty, as there was not sufficient evidence that he knew about the sales or the subsequent monies that were sent to the Contras. (There definitely weren’t any speeches wherein he boasted of overseeing the program, as there are with Obama’s Attorney General Eric Holder and Operation “Gun Runner.”)
    Now, jump to 2011. It’s simply undeniable that Holder is smack dab in the middle of “Gun Runner” and “Fast and Furious.”

    It’s also undeniable that as a result of these two programs, approximately 2,500 guns were sold to “straw purchasers” who were then allowed to smuggle the weapons illegally into Mexico with the DOJ’s knowledge.
    It’s undeniable that only 1300 of the approximately 2500 guns have been recovered: which leaves 1200 guns in the hands of criminals in Mexico and, according to one of the ATF’s own supervisors, has to be factored into the mix when one considers that in March 2010 alone, 958 people were killed in Mexico.
    It’s undeniable that U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed with weapons obtained via “Gun Runner,” and roughly 150 Mexican law enforcement agents are believed to have been killed by weapons from “Gun Runner” as well.
    Moreover, with the recent new gun control mandate which requires gun stores in Arizona, California, Texas, and New Mexico to make a special ATF report for multiple long gun sales, it’s become hard to deny that the plan all along was to use “Gun Runner” and “Fast and Furious” to create chaos sufficient to persuade American citizens that we need more gun control.
    And I haven’t even mentioned the fact that Representative Darrell Issa and Senator Charles Grassley have uncovered a cheat sheet of shorts, which someone in the ATF conveniently made available to those who might be asked to testify in any “Fast and Furious” investigation.
    Said Issa and Grassley:
    We have recently learned that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has afforded potential witnesses for the Committees’ investigation into Operation Fast and Furious access to a shared drive on its computer system replete with pertinent investigative documents, including official ATF e-mails.
    Iran/Contra was overseen by a few mavericks without official administration approval. Yet even those involved appear to have been motivated by the chance to curb the influence of a fanatical anti-Western regime in Iran and a freedom-crushing communist regime in Nicaragua.
    On the other hand, Operations “Gun Runner” and “Fast and Furious” were conducted with the current administration’s knowledge, and over a thousand people are dead as a result. And now, in the midst of the desperate cover-up before us, participants in the operations are apparently being coached on what to say to investigators. (And don’t forget that the ultimate goal of these operations was not near as lofty as that of Iran/Contra. Rather, it seems to have been to pass new laws infringing even further on our 2nd Amendment freedoms.)
    Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that the Stimulus package Obama signed, and of which he is so proud, included $10,000,000.00 in funding for “Gun Runner.”
    Unlike Iran/Contra, it looks like this mess goes all the way to the top.
     
  2. Jul 19, 2011 at 6:39 AM
    #2
    JDCPA

    JDCPA Well-Known Member

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  3. Jul 19, 2011 at 6:58 AM
    #3
    Brunes

    Brunes abides. Thor

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    Skirting very close to political commentary...Keep this conversation going carefully.
     
  4. Jul 19, 2011 at 9:51 AM
    #4
    river rat 69

    river rat 69 Well-Known Member

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    I understand stopping commies down in Nicaragua, I was ok with that one. This fast and furious I dont like the smell of it so far (need more info) but sure dont like giving guns to drug thugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim
     
  5. Jul 19, 2011 at 10:29 AM
    #5
    OZ-T

    OZ-T All of those moments....will be lost.....in time

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    Even though it meant arming Iran
     
  6. Jul 19, 2011 at 12:52 PM
    #6
    river rat 69

    river rat 69 Well-Known Member

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    If I remember the Shaw was one of our butt boys back then?????
     
  7. Jul 19, 2011 at 12:59 PM
    #7
    Packman73

    Packman73 [OP] ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    Um...what?
     
  8. Jul 19, 2011 at 1:01 PM
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    OZ-T

    OZ-T All of those moments....will be lost.....in time

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    Didn't Khommeni come to power during the Carter administration ? ie the hostages etc ?
     
  9. Jul 19, 2011 at 1:22 PM
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    river rat 69

    river rat 69 Well-Known Member

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    Right u r Reagan was not in the crap when it went south. The same today OB will not get his hands dirty but some of his boys will take a fall over this mess....... Jim
     
  10. Jul 19, 2011 at 3:44 PM
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    OZ-T

    OZ-T All of those moments....will be lost.....in time

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    That what I thought , through the Iran/Contra deal the US was covertly arming Iran at the same time as openly arming Saddam Hussein and Iraq during the Iran / Iraq war
     
  11. Jul 19, 2011 at 4:04 PM
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    PeteH

    PeteH Well-Known Member

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    The BATFE allows guns to walk into Mexico, where they kill at least one BP Officer, then the Obama led Justice Dept. uses the fallout as a reason to try new "executive order" gun control measures and also try to blame the whole mess on law abiding citizens, US manufacturers, and boarder state gun shops.
    Iran/Contra, as I remember it, was a bad way to fund the "good guys".
    F&F was designed to be a direct attack on our 2A Rights through lies and corruption
     
  12. Jul 20, 2011 at 4:40 AM
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    river rat 69

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    ^^^^^^^ Good one... Jim
     
  13. Jul 20, 2011 at 5:45 AM
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    RLDTACO

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    This is it in a nutshell.
     
  14. Jul 20, 2011 at 7:06 AM
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    river rat 69

    river rat 69 Well-Known Member

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    A.G. Holder Will not go to the hill to testify. This might get good!!!
     
  15. Jul 27, 2011 at 7:32 AM
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    river rat 69

    river rat 69 Well-Known Member

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    Any see the grilling on the hill yesterday, One Congress man said they have mo but they want to see about curly and and larry.. I was ROTF.. Jim
     
  16. Jul 27, 2011 at 1:06 PM
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    Packman73

    Packman73 [OP] ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    Lol, I missed that.
     
  17. Jul 27, 2011 at 1:13 PM
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    rleeharris

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    Agreed!
     
  18. Jul 27, 2011 at 1:22 PM
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    tegdog

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    Of coarse Reagan didn't know - he was a GOD among men:rolleyes:

    Of coarse Obama is in the wrong- he is the DEVIL:rolleyes:

    Thanks for that I was having a bad day & once again you guys make laugh!
     
  19. Jul 28, 2011 at 6:27 AM
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    river rat 69

    river rat 69 Well-Known Member

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    NO Chrome,3" NFab's steps,TRD skid,Wet okie's.011 grill, k&n,5100's,All this comes right off when the old lady says let's go get a NEW ONE!!!
    ^^^^ Glad to help out. some of this shit makes me want to cry but its best to LOL....Jim
     
  20. Jul 28, 2011 at 7:51 AM
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    sammy87

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    My take on the Iran/Contra scandal was that some bad was done to help some good. The spread of Communism in the western hemisphere was a direct threat to national security. Imagine if from Panama to Mexico became destabalized and turned to communist movements. I'm sure there are similar deals with Pakistan that have been going on for years that we don't know about.

    The "war on drugs" has always been a complete waste of tax payer money and time, and gun runner is another example of how messed up it is. Here you have the ATF and DEA helping in this fight, yet they are the ones giving guns to the bad guys. From what I know about this deal is basically we are giving weapons to the people we are fighting. Those border towns are really messed up and it has spread onto our side. Id like to know how high up the druglords have infiltrated on our side as well. Part of me feels like this whole thing is a way to not deal with the immigration problem and getting latino votes. I also find it interesting to see how quiet the media is about this scandal. I have friends who worship Obama and have never heard of this scandal.

    I think a lot more will come out sometime next yr when the election heats up.
     
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