Who’d much rather have a simple, compact, no frills 4x4 pickup?

I fully agree. But Toyota has started to cater to the fruit-boot subie driving soccer-mom types. They constantly bitch here at TW; seating position sucks, no apple or samsung intergration crap, seat is not adjustbale enough, I need electric ball cooler, I banged my shins. Bunch-o soft fuckers. So, as Americans we are blessed with anmeic over priced vehicles with way too much add-on eletric/usless junk.

 

Dunno… adding computers and electronic gizmos makes a vehicle super complicated, majority of shade tree mechanics can’t work on it, nor have the proper tools to analyze it when it throws a code.

The engine in my Tacoma is waaay more complicated than the 390 we had in the ‘76 F250. The Toyota is double overhead cam, variable valve timing, throttle body, and direct injection.

Of course materials have gotten better, the processing of those materials is incredibly complicated. My point was we don’t have to fiddle with things such as carburetors and points anymore. The computer complication of the modern stuff makes the engine run a hell of a lot better since it can adjust for atmospheric changes instantly, plus they run a lot cleaner, and more efficient. It is amazing how much power we can get out of tiny engines now, remember when V8s were barely pushing 200 horse all the while getting 8-10 mpgs? Sorry thought one could read in between the lines, so I didn’t go too far into it. Was running out the door to go ride dirt bikes. Thinking of that old truck and what a POS it was and us always fussing with it just brought back some memories of how terrible “simple” was.

 

Never said it wasn't complicated, I SAID the complication has nothing to do with reliability, better materials engineering and tolerances these days do.
To change a coil pack and plug on a 6 is $1500 +. How much were plugs cap and points in the old days LOL ?
Engines failed in the old days at 70K because of materials, they had no tech to fail !
All that crap is on there because of cafe regulations.

 

Ahh the joys of arguing with strangers on the internet over semantics.

 

That’s a terrible comparison, one is a necessity and one is a luxury. You don’t need milk, but you do need gasoline unless you live in a city with good public transportation. You can reduce oil consumption with a more efficient engine, there is no dairy equivalent lol. Are you buying 17 gallons of milk every month? Probably not lol. Maybe you haven’t been around farms much but it’s not cheap to keep 1000s of 1500 pound livestock alive.

 

You prefer no frills but have a 3rd gen OR? Why not buy the truck you claim you want?

 

Because I have both - I have a ‘97 4Runner I’ve owned for 22 years also. And I’ve owned a lot of other Toyotas including a 1st gen regular cab, 4x4, 5 speed Tacoma that besides crank windows, it didn’t even come with a tach or a fuel light from the factory! But I LOVED that truck even more than my ‘21 OR. A regular cab just no longer suited my family once I got married and we had kids. I prefer the small bodies and simpleness of the older Toyotas tho 100% and wish Toyota still made trucks like that. Technology and comfort have their place too, and I like my ‘21. But if it was small, light, compact, simpler, I’d like it even more. My wife’s 2017 4runner on the other hand, we like that that one is plush and fully loaded.

 

It’s all relative. I’m sure for a lot of folks in ‘95, Taco1 was big leap forward, swapping out the steering, smoothing out the ride, and adding what Toyota marketed at the time as “the most advanced V6 available in a truck”.

Who knows, maybe in 20 years Tacoma fans will remember when the IsoDynamic seats in their TRD Pro only came with two basic sets of shocks, instead of anti gravity hydrogen thrusters.

 

It was, the 1st Gen Tacoma was a leap waaay forward over the ‘92 RC I was driving. Still the ‘92 was fuel injected with IFS, not really all that basic other than hand crank windows, manual t-case, manny trans, and locking hubs. I tend to put a lot of miles on, never had any electrical issues besides a fuel pump, all the failures over the years were mechanical. Hell, I have broken manual widow mechanisms and handles before, and those are supposed to be fail proof. My 1st Gen is 24 years old, power windows still work fine, and all of the electronic gizmos. Have a very long list of mechanical failures. It is the shop right now getting a new engine because of a head gasket failure.

Those ISO seats are dumb though…give me some Scheel Mann’s.

 

You and about 13 others man.
Sure, a lot would say they want it, until they figure out their tailgate won't lock, they have to manually lock all the doors, they have to use a key, they have to stop on side of road to lock hubs in, their Pandora won't work, no hands free cell, no gps, no heated seat, passenger has to adjust their mirror...
Yea, you and 13 others maybe.

 

For those of you that want tech and better mpg's... This ones for you.

 

A 1st gen size truck would be cool. But it would be completely cramped once you make the doors and roof pillars thick enough for modern safety standards, or it would needs to be a bit bigger on the outside and crowd into Tacoma sales. Rumor is Toyota is considering building one as the new compact trucks (Maverick and Santa Cruz) have been shown to be sales successes. But if you're thinking body-on frame with simple controls and a solid front axle, the market for that is like Ferrari's. Everybody will want one, but nobody would be willing to pay for what they'll have to charge to recoup engineering costs of something that doesn't exist.

 

From what I’ve read, the Santa Cruz is a sales dud, and the Maverick while popular, seems to be suffering from Ford’s perennial shortage of parts. I live in Santa Cruz and the local population of Santa Cruz pickups just doubled with the donation of four of them to our Fire Department for beach rescue (they also have Tacoma’s). I see a few more Mavericks, but nothing compared to Tacoma’s which are perennial top sellers in California, sometimes even at the top of the charts above F150, Corolla etc. Unless a compact “crossover” pickup added incremental sales and decent margin, I’m not sure it makes sense for Toyota to add one; on the other hand they have a zillion CUV’s so maybe they will add a 3rd pickup. But it won’t be simple, let alone body-on-frame … unless they decide to go the other way and compete against the SuperDuty.

 

You should do some research on the carbon footprint of MANUFACTURING an EV compared to an ICE vehicle. It’s something like 17 years you ave to drive the two platforms for their carbon footprints to match if you include manufacturing. Elon Musk doesn’t tell you those facts.

 

Speaking of facts, do you have a source for that statement?

 

It’s true, but the part he doesn’t tell you both EV and ICE make the majority of emissions from driving around and as we adopt more renewables the carbon footprint reduces dramatically for EV and eventually offsets their initial carbon footprint, at least according to MIT, but what do they know right?
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

 

hahaha...I have the opposite experience seeing Santa Cruz' around town. There are 3 of them within a quarter mile of me and I see a few here and there. But numbers don't lie and you're right they've only sold like 35k of them last year which is about as many as Ridgelines. I remember the hype/interest was pretty strong when Hyundai first showed them off.

Looks like ford sold about 75k mavericks last year and they're on track to sell a bit more this year. At the $25k level, this is as close you can get to the simple (new) truck people are clamoring for, but nothing like what this thread is about.

 

My dad bought a 74 hilux 1800cc 4spd, drum brakes, no ac, am radio, crank windows. This was right after the oil embargo and the dealers were not coming off the msrp. I think he paid $3600 for it.

I remember him saying more than once that he could have bought a much nicer Chevy full size for maybe a few hundred more. With ac, front disc brakes, V8 and auto.

But people were afraid of gas rationing and the full size trucks we not selling.

I learned to drive on that truck, but to be honest, that hilux truck in new condition today would be unsafe to drive in today’s world

 

I’ll take one of these. Maybe with a M60 or something for traffic.

 

Idiotaahh.