Why does the audio suck in the 3rd gen? (Solved)

plim · Jul 24, 2020

I replaced the head unit in my 2019 TRD Pro (JBL), with the Pioneer DMH-WT7600NEX. This unit is similar to the 6600 and the 8600.

the sound quality has improved drastically compared to the JBL Head unit. I did not upgrade the factory JBL speakers, amp or sub. I agree with what JRLeBrasseur is saying.

JRLeBrasseur said: ↑

First all, hello everyone! I am new here, having made the transition from (unreliable) Jeeps over to a 2020 Taco TRD Offroad a little over a month ago. I love the truck, but the first thing I noticed when I took delivery was the absolutely abysmal sound quality of the stereo.

For a bit of background, I am an electrical engineer and a Front of House engineer (live sound) who has worked with several national touring acts (including a few you have most likely heard of, and probably many smaller local bands you haven't) over the years up until two years ago. These days I am a signals and communications maintainer on the railroad since I was tiring of the touring lifestyle, but I still provide FOH/backline work, as well as venue PA installs for a close friends live sound company in the region.

While the stock loudspeakers in the Tacoma are absolutely atrocious, the blame for the bulk of the sound quality issues lies in the head unit itself. It is under-powered to an astonishing degree (something like 10w to the front L/R channels, and 5w to the rear channels). Being under-powered, it has a massive issue with clipping. In layman's terms, if you don't know what clipping is, it is when an amplifier exceeds its physical capabilities, and the audio sine wave starts to become somewhat of a square wave as the amplifier physically cannot put out more power and 'clips' the tops of the sine wave. This spells death for loudspeakers quickly as they end up being held at their extremes with the full output of the amplifier (while a sine wave causes a smooth in/out motion of the cone). This causes the voice coils, which are typically air cooled, to overheat and burn up. Believe it or not, you are far more likely to kill a loudspeaker under-powering it than if you overpowered it.

So what does Toyota do?

Well, it sure sounds to me like they are using a combination of VERY aggressive compression/EQ/limiting to prevent the internal amplifier from clipping the outputs. It also sounds like they are using a stereo expander in their processing to try to make the sound stage sound wider and more '3D'. All of this just makes the resulting sound lifeless, hollow, and "tinny" with no warmth.

While adding an amplifier and loudspeakers to the stock system will help a bit, the sound will still sound very 'off' due to the expansive processing Toyota is doing in their head unit, and the fact that there is no true line-out on the head unit. Essentially, you are amplifying an already processed signal. I have also noticed a lot of people using coaxial 2/3 way speakers in their doors. Don't. This destroys the sound stage and causes phasing issues.

How to fix it?

If you do nothing else than just replace the head unit with a decent unit (even as absolutely horrible as the stock loudspeakers are), you will find that it sounds MUCH MUCH better.

Bottom line, if you want good sound quality, I recommend the following (this is what I have done with mine, and it sounds stunningly good):

Head Unit:
Pioneer DMH-WC 6600NEX (it is a direct-fit, has wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, great screen, etc...; you will need a Meastro adapter to interface with factory functions)

Front loudspeakers:
JL Audio C2 650 Components (while I have mine wired to a 5-channel amplifier, you can wire these directly to the head unit outputs if you are on a budget, and they will still sound great. Be sure to use the passive crossover though). Mount the tweeters in the factory tweeter locations, using an adapter. Focus them upward just like the stock ones; the windshield will reflect the sound back an create an expansive sound stage. Mount the 6.5" woofers in the doors using a Crutchfield adapter. Sound deadening recommended in the door if you have the budget.

Rear loudspeakers:
JL Audio C2-525x Coaxials. In the rear, it is okay to use coaxials since these are just being used as rear fill for rear passengers, and should be running at a lower output than the fronts. Once again, use an adaptor from Crutchfield.

Subwoofer (optional, but reccomended):
JL Audio SB-T-TACDCG3/10TW3. This is optional, but will add a lot of energy and warmth and fill out the sound. It mounts in the same spot the factory JBL subwoofer would be, and is designed specifically for the 3rd gen Taco DC's. I have mine paired up with a JL Audio HD900/5 full-system amplifier (which powers all my loudspeakers), but a decent 1 channel amp will suffice.

Other notes:
Once installed it is highly recommended you get your hands on a good RTA and tune/EQ your new sound system properly. I would also avoid using the factory speaker wiring if possible as it is very light gauge wire.

I am sure I missed a ton, but moral of the story is that the factory loudspeakers only account for about 35% of the sound quality issues in this truck; the factory head unit is the bulk of the issue.

EDIT: I see many people recommending the Kicker Key. While it is a budget option, it is a pretty low-quality amplifier. Also, remember, all it will be amplifying is the pre-processed garbage the stock head unit outputs, and trying to use the built in Kicker DSP/auto calibration to reverse thestock processing is not a good method to get decent sound. Garbage in -> Garbage out.
Click to expand...

daveeasa · Jul 25, 2020

So, other than a microphone replacement, does anyone have a quick list of stuff the etune head unit does which pioneer doesn’t do? Is it that much of a no brainer (ignoring cost)?

Edit: seems like one major hurdle is the factory mic, no obvious / easy way to reuse if you upgrade the head unit.

I have no special love for etune nor any major concerns with cost but I would love to keep all modifications reversible. Perhaps replacing the factory mic for new head unit qualifies if it’s possible to stash the factory mic out of the way.

Kevin8se7en · Jul 25, 2020

You don't need to change the head unit for good sound. Just add an amp (I went for an Alpine PowerPack that goes behind the HU), and the Subaru tweeter upgrade. That is enough for the sound to be pretty decent. Throw in a sub and you're golden.

moondog1 · Jul 25, 2020

I went with the Sony XAV-AX1000, kicker speakers front and rear, with the subaru tweeters. It's so much better than the stock setup.

5nahalf · Jul 25, 2020

JRLeBrasseur said: ↑

First all, hello everyone! I am new here, having made the transition from (unreliable) Jeeps over to a 2020 Taco TRD Offroad a little over a month ago. I love the truck, but the first thing I noticed when I took delivery was the absolutely abysmal sound quality of the stereo.

For a bit of background, I am an electrical engineer and a Front of House engineer (live sound) who has worked with several national touring acts (including a few you have most likely heard of, and probably many smaller local bands you haven't) over the years up until two years ago. These days I am a signals and communications maintainer on the railroad since I was tiring of the touring lifestyle, but I still provide FOH/backline work, as well as venue PA installs for a close friends live sound company in the region.

While the stock loudspeakers in the Tacoma are absolutely atrocious, the blame for the bulk of the sound quality issues lies in the head unit itself. It is under-powered to an astonishing degree (something like 10w to the front L/R channels, and 5w to the rear channels). Being under-powered, it has a massive issue with clipping. In layman's terms, if you don't know what clipping is, it is when an amplifier exceeds its physical capabilities, and the audio sine wave starts to become somewhat of a square wave as the amplifier physically cannot put out more power and 'clips' the tops of the sine wave. This spells death for loudspeakers quickly as they end up being held at their extremes with the full output of the amplifier (while a sine wave causes a smooth in/out motion of the cone). This causes the voice coils, which are typically air cooled, to overheat and burn up. Believe it or not, you are far more likely to kill a loudspeaker under-powering it than if you overpowered it.

So what does Toyota do?

Well, it sure sounds to me like they are using a combination of VERY aggressive compression/EQ/limiting to prevent the internal amplifier from clipping the outputs. It also sounds like they are using a stereo expander in their processing to try to make the sound stage sound wider and more '3D'. All of this just makes the resulting sound lifeless, hollow, and "tinny" with no warmth.

While adding an amplifier and loudspeakers to the stock system will help a bit, the sound will still sound very 'off' due to the expansive processing Toyota is doing in their head unit, and the fact that there is no true line-out on the head unit. Essentially, you are amplifying an already processed signal. I have also noticed a lot of people using coaxial 2/3 way speakers in their doors. Don't. This destroys the sound stage and causes phasing issues.

How to fix it?

If you do nothing else than just replace the head unit with a decent unit (even as absolutely horrible as the stock loudspeakers are), you will find that it sounds MUCH MUCH better.

Bottom line, if you want good sound quality, I recommend the following (this is what I have done with mine, and it sounds stunningly good):

Head Unit:
Pioneer DMH-WC 6600NEX (it is a direct-fit, has wireless CarPlay/Android Auto, great screen, etc...; you will need a Meastro adapter to interface with factory functions)

Front loudspeakers:
JL Audio C2 650 Components (while I have mine wired to a 5-channel amplifier, you can wire these directly to the head unit outputs if you are on a budget, and they will still sound great. Be sure to use the passive crossover though). Mount the tweeters in the factory tweeter locations, using an adapter. Focus them upward just like the stock ones; the windshield will reflect the sound back an create an expansive sound stage. Mount the 6.5" woofers in the doors using a Crutchfield adapter. Sound deadening recommended in the door if you have the budget.

Rear loudspeakers:
JL Audio C2-525x Coaxials. In the rear, it is okay to use coaxials since these are just being used as rear fill for rear passengers, and should be running at a lower output than the fronts. Once again, use an adaptor from Crutchfield.

Subwoofer (optional, but reccomended):
JL Audio SB-T-TACDCG3/10TW3. This is optional, but will add a lot of energy and warmth and fill out the sound. It mounts in the same spot the factory JBL subwoofer would be, and is designed specifically for the 3rd gen Taco DC's. I have mine paired up with a JL Audio HD900/5 full-system amplifier (which powers all my loudspeakers), but a decent 1 channel amp will suffice.

Other notes:
Once installed it is highly recommended you get your hands on a good RTA and tune/EQ your new sound system properly. I would also avoid using the factory speaker wiring if possible as it is very light gauge wire.

I am sure I missed a ton, but moral of the story is that the factory loudspeakers only account for about 35% of the sound quality issues in this truck; the factory head unit is the bulk of the issue.

EDIT: I see many people recommending the Kicker Key. While it is a budget option, it is a pretty low-quality amplifier. Also, remember, all it will be amplifying is the pre-processed garbage the stock head unit outputs, and trying to use the built in Kicker DSP/auto calibration to reverse thestock processing is not a good method to get decent sound. Garbage in -> Garbage out.
Click to expand...

I was going to disagree with you on the adding 2/3 way speakers to the front until I read the word coaxials.... yes, I dont know why everyone is buying 3 way coax, then putting in the kicker tweeters... too many damn tweeters up front.
I run a 3 way component set with the mids in the dash, tweeters in the sail panels and woofers in the doors. tweets and mids are very close together. Having each individual speaker time aligned is great. I have individual control over each of the 9 speakers in my truck due to the 10 channel DSP, two 4 channel amps, and single mono amp.

soggyBottom · Jul 25, 2020

5nahalf said: ↑

I was going to disagree with you on the adding 2/3 way speakers to the front until I read the word coaxials.... yes, I dont know why everyone is buying 3 way coax, then putting in the kicker tweeters... too many damn tweeters up front.
I run a 3 way component set with the mids in the dash, tweeters in the sail panels and woofers in the doors. tweets and mids are very close together. Having each individual speaker time aligned is great. I have individual control over each of the 9 speakers in my truck due to the 10 channel DSP, two 4 channel amps, and single mono amp.
Click to expand...

I partially agree with the other posts that there are some issues with the stock head units but i wouldn't call them garbage. At reasonable volumes, the distortion is great. The 3 bad EQ is lacking but overall, really not bad.

- Adding the 2" mid like you did made a massive difference.
- Adding a DSP (Kicker IQ) helped correct but not nearly as much as the 2" speaker did.

5nahalf · Jul 25, 2020

soggyBottom[OP] said: ↑

I partially agree with the other posts that there are some issues with the stock head units but i wouldn't call them garbage. At reasonable volumes, the distortion is great. The 3 bad EQ is lacking but overall, really not bad.

- Adding the 2" mid like you did made a massive difference.
- Adding a DSP (Kicker IQ) helped correct but not nearly as much as the 2" speaker did.
Click to expand...

Yeah, adding the 2 inch mids made a huge difference. In my old rav4, it has the JBL system in it. It just sounded muddy all the time, so I installed some JBL gto220 in the factory tweeter locations. They are a 2 inch mid with a tweeter mounted in the middle, part of a really old 3 way component system and they fit perfect into the OEM mounts on the rav4. I was going to put these in the tacoma, but they are just so old (like 20 years at this point)

LilTexan22 · Jul 27, 2020

I completely ripped put the stock sound system, was too weak for my liking. Kicker tweeters, pioneer 6x9 front, hertz 6.5 rear, alpine 5 channel amp, 12inch kicker sub, equalizer in the glove compartment. Sound quality is amazing! Makes my drives that much better

Paulndot · Aug 1, 2020

AKGSD said: ↑

Strangely update 0101A1 has changed the sound quality of the stock premium non-jbl stereo on mine substantially.
-Bass is no longer flat (though it still can’t quite rattle the mirrors)
-I’m also hearing melodies in songs i never used to in this truck.
-phone call quality dropped substantially

**EDIT: removing my phone from the tacoma & adding it again after the update fixed the call quality.
Click to expand...

Where can we get update 0101A1? Does it affect ApplePlay at all?

Log in or Sign up

Welcome to Tacoma World!

Why does the audio suck in the 3rd gen? (Solved)

#161
plim Well-Known Member

#162
daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions

#163
Kevin8se7en Well-Known Member

#164
moondog1 Well-Known Member

#165
5nahalf I build dumb things

#166
soggyBottom [OP] Well-Known Member

#167
5nahalf I build dumb things

#168
LilTexan22 Well-Known Member

#169
Paulndot Well-Known Member

Products Discussed in

Log in or Sign up

Useful Searches

Welcome to Tacoma World!

Why does the audio suck in the 3rd gen? (Solved)

#161 plim Well-Known Member

#162 daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions

#163 Kevin8se7en Well-Known Member

#164 moondog1 Well-Known Member

#165 5nahalf I build dumb things

#166 soggyBottom [OP] Well-Known Member

#167 5nahalf I build dumb things

#168 LilTexan22 Well-Known Member

#169 Paulndot Well-Known Member

Products Discussed in Entire Site Forum: 3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)

#161
plim Well-Known Member

#162
daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions

#163
Kevin8se7en Well-Known Member

#164
moondog1 Well-Known Member

#165
5nahalf I build dumb things

#166
soggyBottom [OP] Well-Known Member

#167
5nahalf I build dumb things

#168
LilTexan22 Well-Known Member

#169
Paulndot Well-Known Member

Products Discussed in