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Why LEDs should not be run in Halogen reflectors

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by crashnburn80, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. Oct 7, 2016 at 8:51 AM
    #21
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Retire from work, but not from life.

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    Link to 'ultimate headlight upgrade' in the OP

    It's more than a bulb change, but worth the effort.
     
  2. Oct 7, 2016 at 9:46 AM
    #22
    siznarf

    siznarf Everyone my age is older than me...

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    First of all, great post!

    I have a 3rd Gen with opt7 style LEDs installed both in my lows and fogs. After install of the low beams, I noticed right away that the light output (distance) is not very good. It does have a clean, crisp lighting temperature which I like and, because of that, I decided to keep them regardless of output. The LEDs installed on the fog lights are super bright - BLINDING bright because of the glare. I noticed this as my wife was driving the Tacoma and I was in another car in front of her. I only use the fogs now for dirt roads.

    There was some light rain last week here in the bay area - YES, RAIN. I was on my way back from Big Sur (Old coast road to HWY 1) when rain hit - immediately noticed that the light output in the rain is not as great. Turned on the fogs and they did help a bit - BUT because of the glare, it actually made it worse. Had to slow down a bit because of this. Right then I knew it was time for a replacement.

    Read both your posts about the headlight and fog upgrade. Since I use H11 for fogs/lows, which halogen bulb would be close to the 6k temp of the opt7s AND has the best lux output?
     
    gpb and crashnburn80 [OP] like this.
  3. Oct 7, 2016 at 10:47 AM
    #23
    se7enine

    se7enine MCMLXXIX

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    I like Philips X-treme Vision and Osram Night Breaker plus. Both bright/white but life is less than stock.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  4. Oct 7, 2016 at 1:03 PM
    #24
    ATCRich

    ATCRich Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the awesome, informative write-up!! So, where is a good source to purchase the Osrams??
     
  5. Oct 7, 2016 at 1:11 PM
    #25
    Clearwater Bill

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    Read the link out to 'ultimate headlight upgrade' in the OP
     
  6. Oct 7, 2016 at 2:46 PM
    #26
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Go Hawks!
    For best output combined with reasonable bulb life, see the bulbs I listed in Ultimate headlight upgrade which will require a stand-alone harness.

    If you are asking about something compatible with the factory system without a harness:
    These are good recommendations. Additionally I would add the Vosla +100 bulb, which measures in at 71/67w.
    http://store.candlepower.com/64205.html

    Note that running a standalone harness will reduce voltage drop and make even stock wattage bulbs burn brighter.

    As mentioned see here for where I purchased: Ultimate headlight upgrade. However, if you are asking for your 3rd gen, your headlights use H11s and the referenced headlight upgrade thread uses H4s, so those parts will not work for you. You can still do this mod, but instead should follow the steps and bulb recommendations in the Ultimate foglight upgrade thread. The late model 2nd gen fogs use the same H11 bulbs as the 3rd gen headlights. A side benefit of the single filament H11 is you don't have to worry about determining if you are ground switched or conventional.
     
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  7. Oct 7, 2016 at 2:59 PM
    #27
    Unchained 5150

    Unchained 5150 Well-Known Member

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    So the candlepower bulbs are direct plug and play with no additions like the Sylvania ZXE bulbs I have already
     
  8. Oct 7, 2016 at 2:59 PM
    #28
    siznarf

    siznarf Everyone my age is older than me...

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    If the Flösser 90w H11 were used on the 3rd gen projectors, would we still need the harness? - same question goes for the fogs

    I'm assuming yes for higher power draw - what if we don't use the harness?
     
  9. Oct 7, 2016 at 3:52 PM
    #29
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    That is correct.

    Yes, I would still recommend the harness. I am not certain what the headlight circuit rating is on the 3rd gen (likely the same as 2nd gen), but it has been shown that the 2nd gen the circuits fuses can technically hold the wattage, though things may get hot. However you will really choke the potential of the bulbs without the harness. Also the harness uses ceramic plugs designed to connect to hot high powered bulbs vs the factory plastic connectors.

    I missed your earlier question on the 6k temp H11. I am not aware of any from a respectable manufacture that I would recommend. To get a halogen bulb to 6k you would need a very heavy blue coating which will really diminish light output. I also find the higher temperature color less performant in rain/snow/fog conditions. For bulbs whiter than the Flossers I would suggest looking at the 80w H11 Optilux Extreme White made by Hella, rated at 4200k. That is white enough to get rid of the 'halogen look', but will still not have the high temp blue-ish look to match your LEDs. I would not advocate for a coated bulb though, but understand some people want the look. Of course you could swap both your headlights and fogs to color match and have better performance in adverse weather. :)
     
  10. Oct 7, 2016 at 3:57 PM
    #30
    Unchained 5150

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    Thanks brother my ZXE's are pretty damn bright will the Candlepower be brighter and better
     
  11. Oct 7, 2016 at 4:16 PM
    #31
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Yes they will be noticeably brighter than the ZXE, however they are likely not quite as white, which people often mistake for not as bright. The ZXE also has a pretty short bulb life of 150 hours. My 100/90w bulbs are rated at 200 hours, the outgoing Osram 70w which the Volsas replaced are supposed to be much longer, though I am unsure how the hour rating translates to the Volsa bulb.
     
  12. Oct 7, 2016 at 4:19 PM
    #32
    Unchained 5150

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    Sweet thanks man for all the answers
     
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  13. Oct 7, 2016 at 9:26 PM
    #33
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Quantitatively, the ZXE looks to be rated at 910 lumens from the numbers I can find (presumably low beam). The 70w Osrams were rated at 2000/1350. The Volsas are within about 4% of the 70w Osram, or about 1900/1300 lumens if rounding down. So over 40% brighter low beam than XZE, which is a significant upgrade. I still advocate the standalone harness which reduces voltage drop and increases lumen output. While 40% increase is good, 100%+ is better.
     
  14. Oct 7, 2016 at 9:34 PM
    #34
    US Marine

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    I'm running the Sylvania Silver star ZXE Halogen headlights in my 02 DC Pre Runner . This is the best upgrade from the stock headlights and the light output and distance is awesome . With the high beams on the distance I can see is unbelievable
     
  15. Oct 7, 2016 at 10:20 PM
    #35
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Domestic Sylvania Silverstars are not an impressive bulb compared to the halogen technology that is easily available.

    They have done an excellent job positioning themselves with marketing as an over the counter solution to uninformed buyers at local auto parts stores to look whiter than stock as an "upgrade". As proven in my original post, light color has nothing to do with lumen output. Note that Osram Silverstars are another story, and not the same as Sylvania. The Volsas may not look as white but have a vastly superior lumen output rating, lower cost and likely longer bulb life. Plus they are not a fully coated bulb unlike the Sylvania Silverstars.

    Sylvania Silverstar is not a performance bulb, it is a cosmetic one.

    For an in-depth explaination as to why, read up on Daniel Stern:
    http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/good/good.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
  16. Oct 11, 2016 at 9:03 AM
    #36
    TuffRuffDangerous

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    This thread should be a sticky on a top.
     
  17. Nov 5, 2016 at 6:36 PM
    #37
    Windstrings

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    While engineers explain why you can't , reality proves why you can . . Silverstars or zxe will allow you to see farther than stock . . . . Regardless who will explain why it's not true.
     
  18. Nov 5, 2016 at 9:29 PM
    #38
    snowbrdd

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    Believing something is real does not make it real. A lot of kids believe in Santa Claus, Santa Claus still doesn't exist.

    As for an explanation why, look no further than Daniel Stern's website. The human eye is a very poor judge of what is and isn't good visibility, unless you know exactly what to look for.
     
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  19. Nov 5, 2016 at 10:23 PM
    #39
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Fact: The bulbs produce less lumen output (aka light) than a standard bulb, in a higher kelvin rating due to their light reducing coating (whiter) with drastically reduced bulb life.

    Compare the H1 bulb ratings:
    H1 (standard): 1550 lumens, 650 hours
    H1 Sylvania Silverstar : 1380 lumens, 250 hours

    But looks whiter. Just like these LEDs in my original post look whiter. I consider that cosmetic.
     
  20. Nov 5, 2016 at 10:53 PM
    #40
    Windstrings

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    I really believe higher wattage corresponds to better visibility in general . .
    If overdriving a hid 35w bulb you get a benefit as kelvin drops a tad and more lumens in general are cast. . Often not noticeable except in the distance. If you continue to overdrive you get more tons more heat and wasted efficiency spent for the benefit gained , not to mention bulb life is squashed .

    I really feel leds are too frequency specific .
    The human eye has rods that pick up light and respond to given frequencies .

    For instance if the eye can see frequencies 1, 2, 3 , 4 & 5 and lets say HID covers all of those freqs the eye can benefit especially from distant objects reflecting light back to your pupil.

    However if LED only covers freqs 2 & 3 making it use less energy , the human eye loses out as many objects may soak up those 2 freqs with little reflection.

    Same thing happens if a very high kelvin "frequency " is chosen for your leds . . . While you may have a lot if light out there. . The eye can only see part of it.

    Try 100w infrared bulbs and see how far you can see at night! Lots of power but no vision ! Better keep speeds below 5 mph!

    Also the higher kelvin gives great contrast but is so sharp the brain has difficulty interpreting a rock from a rabbit vs an armadillo , whereas a kelvin no lower than evening sun and no higher than normal full day sunlight should fare well.

    Forgetting everyone's fancy theories you just have to compare . . .

    More power will give better vision all else being equal . . . But there is a danger of diminishing returns as the human pupil shuts down "constricts" to protect itself from the close in bright spill , it kills distance vision .

    I'm thinking 55w hid is the best of both worlds with normal driving .

    Keeping higher kelvin than 4200 (4200 - 6000) will make lines on the road and street signs pop!
     
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