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Why no Hill Start Assist on manual trannys?

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by MountainEarth, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. Mar 13, 2011 at 11:27 PM
    #1
    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Anybody know why Toyota never developed a hill start assist feature for the 6-speed manual transmission?

    I know it's on the autos, but that seems kind of pointless to me as I've never known rollback with an auto to be a problem. Seems it would be easy enough to develop and you could turn it on and off with a button on the dash, and would make a huge difference with hill starts in MT Tacomas as the rear is so lightweight and prone to breaking loose on steep takeoffs. Others have it ... like the MT Wranglers. Why not manual FJs and Tacomas? Or (as the 4Runner had already done) is Toyota just determined to make everything auto? (A dealer told me that's exactly what they've heard Toyota is doing).
     
  2. Mar 13, 2011 at 11:36 PM
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    Beerrun

    Beerrun Well-Known Member

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  3. Mar 13, 2011 at 11:45 PM
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    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth [OP] Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
  4. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 AM
    #4
    island808

    island808 Me l've got brains.

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    ferrari tried it, it sucked. You have a working parking brake in the manual shift. Autos don't. (they push on push off like others right?) Use your hand brake. Same thing.
     
  5. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:09 AM
    #5
    S.B.

    S.B. Well-Known Member

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    This or use your right foot for brake and gas while starting to move (I forget the name or it).

    And yes 808 you are right about the autos.
     
  6. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:16 AM
    #6
    eccracer104

    eccracer104 >Insert Clever Title Here<

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    heel toe. brake/gas with both the right foot.
     
  7. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:20 AM
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    S.B.

    S.B. Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is what I was talking about.
     
  8. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:21 AM
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    island808

    island808 Me l've got brains.

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    pfff heel toe. Hand brake is right there for a reason. Its always been there in toyotas and used to be in nissans cause its awesome. Similar in rovers.

    Unless of course you need all 4 wheels to stay stopped. I've seen that. Forget to lock in your hubs, then can't get out to do it because you need all 4 wheels stopped just to stay in one place.. can't go forward because too slick.

    You really have to practice the ol heel toe. If I'm on the street, I just do a quick gas then slip the clutch fast.
     
  9. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:23 AM
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    S.B.

    S.B. Well-Known Member

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    Then do what tow truck drivers do: put a stick in between the seat and brake pedal.:D
     
  10. Mar 14, 2011 at 12:31 AM
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    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I did the hand brake thing for years. It was all fine and good. But a good electronic hill start assist just seems like an evolutionary step for manuals. Like I said, I've heard great things about it in the Wranglers ... with the exception that turning it off is a PITA with a sequence like turning off our seatbelt chimes. Making it a push button feature right next to the clutch start cancel would be great. Certainly if they can come up with TRAC/AutoLSD/A-TRAC which all make use of wheel sensors and ABS, they could easily create push button HSA for manuals.
     
  11. Mar 14, 2011 at 8:46 AM
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    Simms65

    Simms65 Well-Known Member

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    That's a fact. I don't want the truck to do it for me.

    My sister has a '10 Wrangler with the hill start assist, and it is a PITA to deal with. You actually have to wait for the brakes to disengage to get going. I've stalled it several times not thinking about waiting. :mad:
     
  12. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:29 AM
    #12
    island808

    island808 Me l've got brains.

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    That sounds like a major add on. Ergo, not going to find it on toyota's value line. Might see it on an FJ though. Just no real demand for it on an IFS pickup truck.

    Well wait now, I can think of a couple of legitimate uses, boat ramps, trailering almost anywhere. But again, the tacoma is not a full on "truck" like a 250/2500 or even a 1500 model, which still isn't much of a "truck". Its more like a home tool kit. Not "shop grade". There's just no call for it. Do they offer it in ford/chevy HD models, yup.
     
  13. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:32 AM
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    PAlittlematty

    PAlittlematty "the soulless ginger"

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  14. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:28 PM
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    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yeah because all that ABS, TRAC, A-TRAC, VSC, AutoLSD, e-locker and drive-by-wire shit isn't automatic. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:34 PM
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    whippersnapper02

    whippersnapper02 Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing they didn't do it for the manual because you get the clutch start cancel switch. IDK. HAC has kicked on a few times in my truck and it is nice to not roll back on steep stuff but I think I would be just fine without it in my auto.
     
  16. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:37 PM
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    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I've never really seen a reason for it in the auto. But on boat ramps or on some hairy steep, it would be a nice push button activated feature in a manual. Just like A-TRAC or a locker ... I sure as hell don't use them all the time, but it's nice to have the button when I need them.
     
  17. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:41 PM
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    whippersnapper02

    whippersnapper02 Well-Known Member

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    It should be included on all the manuals and not the auto. IDK. I'm sure Toyota has a reason for it.
     
  18. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:46 PM
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    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    Clutch start cancel baby.

    Stop. Engine dead. Clutch out. brake off - engine braking holds position on all fours. Clutch start cancel button. turn over ignition - starter starts truck moving and also starts the engine. Yes, the starter has enough power to move the truck forward in 4lo 1st even when it's *really* steep.

    No roll back.
     
  19. Mar 15, 2011 at 10:53 PM
    #19
    DCGirl

    DCGirl Well-Known Member

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    I miss driving big trucks....the tacoma is nothing in comparison. At least I don't have to deal with stares of seeing a 20-something small chick hopping out of the 18-wheeler or the tanker I use to drive.

    If I wasn't in southern california I would have a manual...im sick of so-cal I want out!
     
  20. Mar 15, 2011 at 11:02 PM
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    MountainEarth

    MountainEarth [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yeah clutch start cancel is cool ... when you kill the engine in 4lo. Like I've said, what I'm talking about is a dash button that could be used in 2hi or 4hi as well.

    Yes it's true you can finesse the e-brake. Like I said, I did that for years. But given all the other electronic convenience crap on these things now .. manuals too .. I'm just surprised this is one Toyota hasn't done considering nearly all the parts are already there. You'd just need to add a sensor to detect rollback and then apply the brake ... just as TRAC, AutoLSD and A-TRAC apply the brake when a wheel breaks loose.

    But then again, as I mentioned in my 1st post, I'm guessing Toyota probably isn't particularly eager to add any features to it's manuals, since like everyone else, they appear to be phasing them out. They dropped another 3 manual Tacoma models for the 2011 year.

    It's kind of sad actually, because what I'd really love to see is an all manual everything again. A true all purpose tinker's truck that's a no nonsense workhorse. But more and more even the most tried and true models are becoming computers on wheels.
     
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