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Will Hydrogen get us 30 MPG by 2016?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by akone, May 21, 2009.

  1. May 21, 2009 at 6:10 PM
    #21
    TheTacoManChach

    TheTacoManChach I AM THE GREAT CHACHOLIO!!!

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  2. May 21, 2009 at 6:55 PM
    #22
    Old Soul

    Old Soul Well-Known Member

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    Japan unveiled the 100% water car last year, it even runs on tea, lol

    http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Genepax&emb=0&aq=-1&oq=#

    I met a guy at the beach that has added hydrogen boosters, or hydrogen on demand systems to his vehicles since the mid eighties and had gone through quite a few re-built motor scenarios while getting it worked out. When I met him at the beach he was driving a huge military transport vehicle that he converted over to a peace mobile with a huge peace sign plastered on the side. He got 55 miles to the gallon with the hydrogen booster and the vehicle should have been getting 4 miles to the gallon. He showed me the unit and it was a simple 4 inch diameter pvc pipe with water in it at about 18 inches long with a cable that ran to the battery that was connected to pieces of galvanized flashing that was down in the pipe and they were separated by little rubber bumpers. there was a tube that ran out of the pvc pipe to the intake hose before the carburetor. The tube was connected to a reservoir that caught any excess moisture that might get sucked up the tube before going to the air intake hose. hygogen on demand, no need for massive storage tanks.

    I'm not trying this on my new 09 Taco but might on the 98 s-10
     
  3. May 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM
    #23
    ARB1977

    ARB1977 It’s a beaut Clark

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    Forget about hydrogen and electricity...we need a diesel damn it.
     
  4. May 21, 2009 at 10:06 PM
    #24
    TacoTurd

    TacoTurd Defying Alliances since 2007

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    Baloney. Hydrogen doesn't just come out of water and 300W = 0.4 horsepower.

    Did he sell you a bridge as well? :D
     
  5. May 21, 2009 at 10:53 PM
    #25
    akone

    akone [OP] Member

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    :popcorn:

    I'm learning a lot.
    Thanks for the info and opinions.
     
  6. May 22, 2009 at 12:55 AM
    #26
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    I was thinking the same thing.:)
     
  7. May 22, 2009 at 1:03 AM
    #27
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    It's not possible. In a perfect system using hydrolysis, you'd get the exact energy you put in back out. When you separate a water molecule with energy, you get the same energy back out when you put it back together. You're breaking apart a water molecule into three atoms: two hydrogen and one oxygen. When you burn hydrogen, you're adding the oxygen molecule back in, which releases energy (which is why the exhaust expelled out the exhaust pipe is water vapor: H20). If you could get more energy back out than you put in, you would violate the law of thermodynamics which says that energy is neither created or destroyed. If what he's saying would work (get more energy out than it took to break the molecules apart), we could create a perpetual motion device by taking water, breaking it apart through electrolysis, burn it, expel the exhaust as water vapor, capture the vapor and start over.

    In reality, it's much less efficient than perfect. Energy is lost in the form of heat. So what you're putting in will always be more than what you get out (and you'll also lose energy when you ignite the hydrogen: heat). You'll definitely not win with $100 worth of parts from Home Depot.
     
  8. May 22, 2009 at 4:12 AM
    #28
    Old Soul

    Old Soul Well-Known Member

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    I think the battery initially starts the hydrogen bubbling process and it is some sort of a loop system. battery holds charge- at start up, battery provides electricity to the water which makes hydrogen which is then combustible which is then somehow used for more power etc, and the cycle continues

    No, in fact this dude was still into eight track tapes. He had just recently found out that many others are working with the HHO systems that he has been working with since the 80's and was completely blown away when my girlfriend and I even knew what he was talking about. someone had told him to go to the library and use the computer to type in HHO at youtube and check out the results. He was practically walking around telling people he drove to the beach on three gallons of gas, I was telling him... woah,, watch out for the oil companies, they do not want to hear about your increased fuel economy.

    I tried to get his contact info but he did not even have a phone, he wrote our names and #'s down in a yellow book that was 30 years old. if he ever calls inquiring about bridges I might look at what he has to offer :cool:
     
  9. May 22, 2009 at 12:13 PM
    #29
    burnt_tiger

    burnt_tiger Well-Known Member

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    my take is it will take a breakthrough in cold fusion to create copious amounts of clean electricity to power either electric cars or create hydrogen
    for said cars

    hell you could have a hybrid to maximize energy usage. electricity for commutes ect (charge at night) and hydrogen 4 road trips (nobody wants to wait 45 min to recharge)

    bottom line cold fusion is the answer
     
  10. May 22, 2009 at 12:22 PM
    #30
    Raylo

    Raylo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the good old perpetual motion machine that somehow manages to defy the laws of physics and chemistry and purports to extract more energy than it consumes out of a process that simply can't do this. This is exactly the kind of nonsense that is rampant on the net these days. You can get plans and buy this "technology" from any number of scam artists. Damn, this was one of the longest running threads on my old Chevy S-10 forum kept alive by a few of the "faithful" who were always adding extra alternators, extra batteries, playing with magic frequencies, etc. I had hoped to leave all that behind when I got my Tacoma!!


     
  11. May 22, 2009 at 12:39 PM
    #31
    Bart

    Bart Well-Known Member

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    Batteries sause a envirmental hazard before and after their shelf life. They make more pollution making them and dicarding them than they are worh hydrogen I believe is the answer and yes it's take a lot of energy to produce hydogen but here's the solution nuclear power. Instead of building more refineries the oil and gas companies could invest in nuclear power plant's specifically to produce hydrogen. Until then we need to drill offshore in our own counrty instead of selling our drilling right's to other counrty's. America can power it's self.
     
  12. May 22, 2009 at 1:20 PM
    #32
    akone

    akone [OP] Member

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    I wonder how many times all of this has been hashed over. Good ideas come from doing something, not doing nothing. Every action has a reaction. Even if the reaction is a dead end it is still valid in the search for a solution. A solution will happen only if people keep hashing it out. It may become evident by researchers off on a tangent and it may come from an old man living off the grid and not realizing what he has done.

    Or we could sit back and wait until gas is $15.00 a gallon.

    I agree though, beware of the rip offs on the net.
     
  13. May 22, 2009 at 1:33 PM
    #33
    Coreyjon

    Coreyjon Northern Alliance: Airlift Div

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    Electrolysis is far from the top choice to produce hydrogen. There are other ways to produce it, certain types of algae (and the honda-fumashima (Sp) effect), reactions with certain metals, and transmutation - using radiation to alter certain elements. ( want to say nitrogen will transmute into 1 oxygen and 1 hydrogen, but my chemistry is a bit rusty). Electrolysis can be made more efficient by using a more efficient, cleaner source of electricity could be used. If the power used was cheaply, or cleanly made, and you can turn around and sell the hydrogen for a profit then does it matter as long as the hydrogen is cheaper than gas, provides more power (hydrogen has 3 times the power density as gas) , and pollutes less?

    I like hydrogen, but it will never be more than a power carrier. It is the most abundant natural resource in the universe after all. Electric cars will be the future though as they are far more efficient. Gas engines suck - their overall efficiency is crap, more energy is lost as heat, and sound than you would like to admit. The laws of physics are always in affect. Gas sucks, internal combustion engines suck, and every single connection, joint, and gear - parasitic loads.

    Nuclear power, fission - low yield waste = good
    Nuclear fusion - holy grail - 15 - 20 years away before we start producing more power sustainably then is used to start the reaction. This is mostly a technical exercise in materials engineering, and magnetic containment.
     
  14. May 22, 2009 at 1:35 PM
    #34
    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    The batteries aren't discarded. Even regular car batteries are recycled. If you ever watch that " How its made " show on Discovery, they showed how they recycle them: The whole battery is ground up. The plastic chunks are seperated from the lead, the lead is melted down and formed into new cells for new batteries while the water is treated and the plastic gets turned into new battery cases.

    Newer batteries like the ones in the Prius have a $600 buyback system from Toyota. The metals in them are too valuable to throw away.
     
  15. May 22, 2009 at 1:35 PM
    #35
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    But bad and useless ideas can waste a lot of time, effort and money. So, as an absurd, more obvious example, you could spend a lot of time and effort trying to develop and prove that a square wheel will perform better than a round one. But already established laws of physics dictate that what you're doing is simply wasting your time.
    http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf
     
  16. May 22, 2009 at 1:38 PM
    #36
    Raylo

    Raylo Well-Known Member

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    Wishful thinking and self delusion do not equal "good ideas" or substitute for real peer reviewed science. The fact that this H2 from water stuff lives on proves the old adage about suckers being born every minute. The same folks getting into this now would have been looking for the 200 mpg carburetor 25 years ago, yet another device that could only exist in an alternate universe with different physical laws than we have to live with in this world.
     
  17. May 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM
    #37
    bobwilson1977

    bobwilson1977 Well-Known Member

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    so true!
     
  18. May 22, 2009 at 1:42 PM
    #38
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    Don't these two statements contractict each other? If it's a power carrier, then energy has to be inserted into it for it to be useful. There's more hydrogen in a gallon of gasoline than there is in a gallon of liquid hydrogen. According to the article I linked to above, gasoline has about 9000 watt hours of energy per liter whereas hydrogen has about 2.7 watt hours of energy per liter. The same truck that carries enough gasoline for 800 cars can only carry enough hydrogen for 80.
     

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