Winch mount/frame failure...

I see that there are weld on reinforcement plates out there to beef up the thin stock front crash bar mounts. Has anyone had a failure at or near the frame mounting location after a hard winch or snach strap recovery?

 

Good question. I'm also wondering the same thing.

 

I went w/the KORE reinforcements because I'd read people stating they had torn that area after just one winch pull. Others say they got several pulls before it was bent badly. Since I can weld, it was a no brainer for me. Next time I'd just use 1/4" plate & make them myself.

 

For the failures you've seen, what type of setup did the user have? Did they have a metal bumper with a winch mounted or was it a front hitch receiver style mount like the one I have on my 2009 pictured below?

 

It's been winches mounted to aftermarket front bumpers.

 

If this is really an issue, it seems to me the reinforcement plates should be included with the aftermarket bumper $$$.

Yes,...No?

 

That being said, the way my Brute Force attaches I assume that one of the main "H" members of the frame would have to fail in order to have this issue...in which case you'd be proper fooked anyway.

 

I run an Aluminess and an M8000 on my '14. Winched myself out of some pretty deep holes without a problem. But the Aluminess has more flex to it that my old ARB did, which may provide more elastic deformation before getting into plastic (permanent) deformation.

Hedging bets, I bought a set of Relentless tie-in brackets that bolt into the frame well behind the frame horns. I actually ended up with 2 sets, so I have an extra set if anyone needs them.

 

I have a hidden winch mount as well that uses the receiver and mine started pulling away on the 2nd moderate pull. We are talking here about the mount on each side where the alum crash bumper is fastened by 3 elevator bolts.

 

What did you do to fix/reinforce it? Also, which hidden mount did you have at the time?

 

I think the whole reason the reinforcement plates exist where the front bumper normally attaches is strictly because of this. The bumpers are generally pretty sturdy so it goes to the next weak link which if the frame contact point. As far as frame failures, it would be good to know exactly how someone winched their stuff though to cause a deformation. There are a few wrong ways to recover and it wouldn't surprise me if one of the wrong ways could lead to some frame fatigue.

At the end of the day, I am a believer in being preventive when possible and would reinforce my frame if I had a winch.

 

The plates that are welded to the chassis from the factory where the studs are welded that allow the crash bar to be bolted on are thin. They "can" flex and in once instance I have seen the factory weld crack on a guys truck with a plate bumper (not ours). They wouldn't flex if the pull was dead straight away from the truck but that type of recovery is often rare. They're more likely to flex during a side/up/down pull. The chances of you physically ripping off a bumper is slim to none. With our plate bumpers we provide frame reinforcements that go on the underside and straps that bolt through the side of the bumper and through the chassis. This way most of the stresses are seen on tensile and shear forces on the grade 8 hardware. These are provided with bumpers due to their weight and what they do to the truck. Because the top of the bumper and even worse if it has hoops is so far away from the mount points, it creates a fairly large moment arm on the mount points. The further away from the mount points, the less force it takes to apply equal load. You want the winch as close to the mount points as possible. This will create the least amount of force against the studs.

We don't offer the frame reinforcement plates because we don't see there being a huge value in them. We do have the two improvements that are included with our plate bumper and I am pretty sure most other vendors include a similar idea too.

I hope all this makes sense.

-Joe

 

Thanks @Mobtown Offroad, good insight.

 

@Mobtown Offroad So what's the verdict? If I'm running the front hitch receiver from y'all do I need to reinforce the factory plates or not if I intend to use the winch?

 

In my opinion, no.

We've shipped tons of these recovery bars and plate bumpers. I was on the trails a few times with Lloyd @Subway4X4 who use to run ours and he did a lot of really tough winch pulls with no issues at all.

 

No issues with the recovery bar mounted to the frame. That's probably one of the the beefiest mounts i've seen. IMO, the weakest link, at least in my case, was the portable winch carrier.

I was running a Warn winch carrier with a SmittyBilt 12k winch. Used it a lot with straight and angle pulls with zero issues whatsoever.

 

Glad to hear it. I'm running a similar setup with a Smitty 10k X2O in a cradle.

 

Yeah. That single receiver insertion point has gotta be the weakest point of the whole system. The @Mobtown Offroad recovery bar is mounted to the front frame at so many bolt locations, it’s never gonna be an issue.

 

Relentless

I purchased and installed the 4X Innovations hidden winch mount and have a 9.5k winch mounted to a removable receiver cradle so I can use it on either the front or back. The idea of a receiver mount is great as I don't have to carry the weight of the winch/cradle around full time. I found reference to some plates made by Relentless Fabrication that bolt to two of the three front elevator bolts (on the factory crash bar). The plates extend backward where a large existing hole through the frame is used to anchors the rear of the plate.

So there are now two of these Relentless plates on mine: one on each side. I could not get them to respond to inquiries as to whether two such plates on each side might be better. or doable, so I made a rough cardboard pattern and did another similar set of plates that captures the third elevator bolt on the factory mount and uses the same bolt and hole in the frame on the rear side of the plate. The clearance between the frame and radiator is kind of tight so I kind of monkeyed around with 3/16 and 1/4 plate to do the other set.

I looked for an image of the Relentless frame plates but could not find for this response. I'm sure they cold be contacted for an image.

 

Exactly what I want.....

Can not wait to get my grubby little fingers on a cradle and winch.