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Yikes! Oil emulsion at first oil change.

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by canoeski, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Mar 1, 2012 at 10:15 PM
    #1
    canoeski

    canoeski [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I just did my first oil change on 2012 with the 4.0L engine at 802 miles. About 60% of the miles have been short distance (daily driver) under 10 miles in weather ranging from 40F to 0F. I was changing it in the dark and noted with my headlamp and lights that the oil seem to be an odd color, like coffee with a bit of milk. I saved a sample to look at indoors and sure enough it seems odd to me. I then proceeded to complete the oil change and was shocked when I opened the filler tube and found more than a heaping tablespoon of a creamy substance which I presume is an emulsion of oil and water. Then when emptying the filter into the drain basin I note a glittery appearance to the oil!

    What's going on?
    The only other time i've seen that emulsion in small amounts was on a high mileage Tercel with a 22R engine. My recently defunct 1993 Truck with the 22RE engine never did this.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mar 1, 2012 at 10:28 PM
    #2
    steve o 77

    steve o 77 braaap

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    yeah short trips will do this. You need to burn that stuff off every once in a while with a long drive.
     
  3. Mar 1, 2012 at 10:32 PM
    #3
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Very, very bad.

    Your driving conditions are not helping... you are getting the engine just warm enough to cause serious condensation issues, but that looks like WAY more than you would expect to see from 800 miles of short hops.

    I hope you saved the drained oil.
    I would send a sample to Blackstone to satisfy my curiosity, but that truck, the drained oil, and the old filter need to get back to the dealer ASAP. You could have a coolant leak, but whether coolant or condensation... water is not a good lubricant, and the "glitteriness" in the old oil certainly sounds bad.
     
  4. Mar 1, 2012 at 10:32 PM
    #4
    canoeski

    canoeski [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but I'm driving it the same way I've used my 4 banger for 19 years.
    Never seen this...in this amount, all the way down the filler tube!:confused:
     
  5. Mar 1, 2012 at 10:33 PM
    #5
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    That bad?
    I've never seen it that bad unless the head gasket was blown.
     
  6. Mar 1, 2012 at 11:51 PM
    #6
    canoeski

    canoeski [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I saved two samples of oil (about 8 oz) because I thought of sending one to Blackstone too. I saved the oil filter, but had already drained most of it. I also saved a small sample of the "cream"

    I'm planning a 200 mile trip tomorrow, so I'm curious to see if it returns.

    If this is a big problem I'm glad I changed the oil early! Who looks in the filler tube unless you are changing the oil?

    Here are the filters( the factory one with red o-ring is much beefier than the OEM replacement):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Mar 1, 2012 at 11:56 PM
    #7
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Ya, cut that factory filter open and you'll find a completely different type of filter.
    Looks almost like a sponge.
     
  8. Mar 2, 2012 at 12:19 AM
    #8
    canoeski

    canoeski [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the links 'Snapper!
    I feel a little better about going for the longer drive this weekend.

    At least once a week I purposefully go for a longer drive to blow off moisture. I figure condensation had something to do with it and that why I mentioned it in first post. It was just WAY more that I have ever seen.

    The filler tube on my 4 banger 22RE is not actually a tube at all, but part of the valve cover, so it stays HOT. Maybe this is the difference (it's not the weather or driving habits in this case)
     
  9. Mar 2, 2012 at 5:05 AM
    #9
    Mr Hyde

    Mr Hyde 3rd Taco's a charm

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    I think its a design byproduct of the filler tube on the 4.0L. It seems to collect condensation from a warming engine. I've never had a problem with it in mine because I am religious about not taking short trips. However, my wife never used to have any issues cranking up the truck to run across the street in her 07. When I started to change the oil, this is what I found every time. I showed it to her, and she has since started to avoid the short trip. The problem cleared up immediately.

    As was said, you need to burn that stuff off...it comes with running the engine at operating temperature. You will also extend the life of the exhaust by keeping the water vapor from settling in the muffler.
     
  10. Mar 2, 2012 at 6:22 AM
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    steve o 77

    steve o 77 braaap

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    You answered your own question VV. Plus that 22re probably warms up faster than the 4.0 which helps.

     
  11. Mar 2, 2012 at 11:43 AM
    #11
    canoeski

    canoeski [OP] Well-Known Member

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    OK, so two followup questions:

    Does it matter how far you drive or how long you drive to burn off the moisture? I guessing the Time is more critical. My commute to work is 4 miles and takes 15 min; the hyothetical guy down the road takes the freeway 15 miles in 15 min. Who burns off more moisture? (I'm guessing the operating temp of the engine should be about the same, esp in winter) FWIW, both my 4 banger Truck and now my 4.0 Tacoma both warm up enough to use the heater in about a mile of slow, gentle city driving. I do not "warm up the engine" before driving even on the coldest days.

    Does this "mayonnaise" affect the lubricity of the oil? (I'm guessing it does) I don't want to be changing the oil every 800 miles in the winter, especially since just put in synthetic.

    I often bike to work (6-8 months/year), but when I need to drive the most (cold and wet weather) is when condition are worst for engine condensation, and I won't be biking.:(
     
  12. Mar 3, 2012 at 10:58 AM
    #12
    watacomaguy

    watacomaguy Active Member

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    That looks pretty suspicious to me. I'd keep a real eye on it. Good thing is that it's under warranty. I've owned a ton load of vehicles and never seen something like that. Good luck!
     
  13. Mar 3, 2012 at 11:03 AM
    #13
    worthywads

    worthywads Well-Known Member

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    The mayo sticks in the neck where it is relatively cold, if it does drip or slide back into the motor it will hit relatively very hot oil and reboil the moisture.

    Nothing to worry about.
     
  14. Mar 3, 2012 at 11:07 AM
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    watacomaguy

    watacomaguy Active Member

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  15. Mar 3, 2012 at 3:35 PM
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    wrmathis

    wrmathis Dark Lord of the Sith

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    it doesnt help that the filler tube is made of plastic either and is very long. i have a 5.7L tube from the tundra on mine and its significantly shorter.
     
  16. Mar 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM
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    Mr Hyde

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    Motor Yogurt......That's awesome!!!!!
     
  17. Mar 5, 2012 at 3:21 PM
    #17
    canoeski

    canoeski [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Bump for my question above ^^^

    Update:
    I drove it 128 miles (all Hwy 60-65mph) and just a bit of "motor mayo" accumulated in the filler neck. The oil remains clear. (so much so it's hard to read on the dip stick. I guess I'll do the dipstick mod)
     
  18. Mar 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM
    #18
    ontarioyota

    ontarioyota Well-Known Member

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    Great thread guys ...sounds like you are ok OP

    I just discovered motor yogurt/mayo in my 06 4.7L tundra last change and was worried as well....never see it in the taco

    Tundra sits for days with out being started and short trips as well although I do allow ample warm up time....also has the long plastic fill tube so this makes sense!!!

    Wow I feel better,,,also big thanks to whippersnapper for the mayo/yogurt links.
     
  19. Mar 5, 2012 at 7:40 PM
    #19
    joes06tacoma

    joes06tacoma Well-Known Member

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    That filler tube is plastic. That's a contributing factor. It's not going to heat up as quickly as the aluminum valve cover. Probably why you didn't have the issue on the 22R. That engine doesn't have an extended plastic spout attached to the valve cover.

    If the coolant isn't down, I wouldn't be concerned. I had the same thing happening on a 22R and it actually turned out to be a coolant leak into the oil. I was loosing maybe a cup of coolant in a month of short trip driving around town. It would burn off on a long highway trip. Once I figured it out and replaced the $2 washer that was leaking, the engine was fine, no damage.
     
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