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GM&GMC MID SIZE TO GET DIESEL 2015

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Old 08-26-2013, 10:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbs1 View Post
At 346/180 it should be on par with the Tacoma...or faster. Not quite a pig? In fact in a similarly weighted Colorado I'd say it would trounce the current Tacoma both in a 0-60 and at the gas station. As much as I like my Tacoma it either needs another 50hp or 5mpg's...or both!
You are reading too much into the torque figure. The new Colorado will be bigger and heavier than the Taco. 180 hp in a heavier truck will result in poor acceleration closer to the 2.7L Taco than the 4.0L Taco.

The flagship Hilux model in Australia is the Hilux TRD with factory-installed supercharger on the 1GR-FE gas engine... This is what Australians drive when they can afford gas prices:



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Old 08-26-2013, 10:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
There may still be some diesel-design expertise left at Isuzu. Could just be naivete on my part, though. GM automatic transmissions are still pretty good.
The 4L60E was a pile of junk I know first hand. Seems like the 4L series loves to slip around 80k miles
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DaMann View Post
The Dodge Ram diesel for the 1500 is made by an Italian firm too. Why is it the Americans don't know how to build diesels or don't have the desire to? I thought diesels were actually lower tech engines. Surely it can't be that hard to develop their own small diesels can it?
American manufacturers have been selling diesel cars and trucks for years ... mostly for sale outside the U.S. market. GM, Chrysler, and Ford all have diesel vehicles in production.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
Two sources so far

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2d7dHYLEW

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/08/...do-gmc-canyon/

It will be interesting to see how Americans take to the low power output of the diesel. The turbocharged version makes a good 346 lb-ft of torque, but only 180 hp, which means acceleration will be a pig.
This is true, in a drag race. But if you look at the RPM range most drivers spend 90% of their time using, the diesel actually has more available power and torque.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ga tacoguy View Post
I guess we will now see if Toyota will now respond to market conditions and offer the 2.5 Litre and the 3Litre V6 that it sells in the Hilux. The Hilux offers both manual and automatic for both diesels. Just bring over the Hilux Diesels and most people will forget the Tacoma.
With all the taxes it's more cost effective for toyota to import the d4d engine and modify the tacoma to fit it. And I don't think Americans like the car like front end of the international pickups(Hilux, world Ranger, Coloroda etc). I think one of the reasons they are made that way is to pass Euro crash pedestrian tests. I like the taco better looks wise.

It's a mystery to me why Nissan doesn't bring V9X V6 diesel they use in the Frontier(Navara) in other countries. 210hp and 410 lbs and it already fits. I guess passing emissions is too complicated and expensive to take a risk in the USA. And they also offer a more economical 4 cil diesel in the navara with 170hp and 300lbs
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:22 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gincoma View Post
The 4L60E was a pile of junk I know first hand. Seems like the 4L series loves to slip around 80k miles
Mine has 120K no problems what so ever.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calboyincal View Post
This is true, in a drag race. But if you look at the RPM range most drivers spend 90% of their time using, the diesel actually has more available power and torque.
I don't think that's the case given the 50% power deficit of the diesel. Do you have dyno charts comparing GM's 2.8L turbodiesel with the 3.6L LFX or the D-4D with 1GR-FE? Keep in mind the diesel's turbo needs to spool up a bit, too.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:15 PM   #28
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A lot of Americans still think diesel engines are noisy and foul smelling. The price of diesel doesn't help either. Now we all know refinement has greatly helped with the noise and smell over the years but many Americans still feel the diesel engine is still that way. Manufacturers haven't educated people enough either as to another reason why.
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:48 PM   #29
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I was simply comparing current Tacoma power levels to the posted 180/346. Even if the new Colorado outweighs it by 250lbs, using those figures (especially the tq available off idle) I don't see the GM product losing much to the current toy 4.0, especially in the current poor mpg figures.

GM's new 4.3 is showing 285/335 I believe and with DI I'm guessing even in what you're claiming to be a heavier vehicle, it should walk away from a current Tacoma WITH an SC installed and get better fuel economy to boot.

Again, I'm a Tacoma fan, but due to good sales it seems Toyota has sat on their hands for too long with the power plants in these trucks. GM is going to take a share of this medium truck market with their new offering which will force Toyota to bring some new power plants to market. A win for all of us.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:01 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfurtado77 View Post
I would rather have the domestics outsouce there engines to other company's than try to make there own diesel the reliabity of a gm diesel would scare me ahah.
case in point, just look at the disaster that Ford designed a while back. I pity anyone that owns one.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:39 AM   #31
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Price will be the real determining factor for these diesels.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:46 AM   #32
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There may be more diesels coming in light trucks, but I seriously doubt any will ever arrive with a manual transmission. Unless I see that drive train combo, I'm not interested.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stump jumper View Post
case in point, just look at the disaster that Ford designed a while back. I pity anyone that owns one.
According to this Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerstroke, the International engines were the ones with design issues. Ford switched to making its own engines in 2010.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbs1 View Post
I was simply comparing current Tacoma power levels to the posted 180/346. Even if the new Colorado outweighs it by 250lbs, using those figures (especially the tq available off idle) I don't see the GM product losing much to the current toy 4.0, especially in the current poor mpg figures.
The new Colorado is bigger dimensionally than the Taco and has a steel bed. Weight difference could be closer to 600 lb. Anyway, the 2.8L diesel doesn't compete with the 1GR; the diesel competes with the LFX 3.6L gas engine that will be offered in the Colorado. That engine makes 301 hp and 272 lb-ft in the Equinox, and 323 hp / 278 lb-ft in the Camaro.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
I don't think that's the case given the 50% power deficit of the diesel. Do you have dyno charts comparing GM's 2.8L turbodiesel with the 3.6L LFX or the D-4D with 1GR-FE? Keep in mind the diesel's turbo needs to spool up a bit, too.
I looked for a dyno comparison but couldnt find one for those engines, but i have seen a comparison and I'm not making things up. Diesels have low redlines but make all of their torque in the range most people drive in (1500-2500 rpm) whereas most gas engines need to rev much higher and are therefor not using their available power much of the time (most peak at 4500 rpm or higher). I know that on paper it looks underpowered and does have less power, but having owned a Jetta tdi with 100 hp and my dad having a 1997, 2001, and 2010 Dodge diesels, and driving a hilux diesel around nicaragua both on and off road, I will say that diesels fall short only in throttle response. I love drifting my 4.0 taco 6 speed and have great throttle response and control, but for pretty much all other driving I would prefer a diesel.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #35
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My point is, the power disparity between diesel and gas engines is so great, even at low rpms the gas engine can match the diesel. For example, here's a dyno chart of 1GR courtesy of Commanderwiggin.

1500-2500 rpm is cruising rpm where you don't need power... If you need to pass, step on the gas and by 3250 rpm (basically instant) you are already making equivalent of peak power of the 2.8L diesel. (Est. 18% driveline losses.)

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Old 08-31-2013, 02:12 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfurtado77 View Post
I would rather have the domestics outsouce there engines to other company's than try to make there own diesel the reliabity of a gm diesel would scare me ahah.
Agreed, as someone who remembers the 80's GM diesels..
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ABA180 View Post
Agreed, as someone who remembers the 80's GM diesels..
I'd consider a Ford or Fiat sourced diesel (have to see the history of the engine), but I'd skip on anything GM on general principle.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenLyns View Post
It will be interesting to see how Americans take to the low power output of the diesel. The turbocharged version makes a good 346 lb-ft of torque, but only 180 hp, which means acceleration will be a pig.
HP is low because HP is a function of torque and RPM.
346 ft/lbs at 1500 is a LOT of power for a 4,000lb truck. It translates to low HP because you are not multiplying the function by 5,000.

I had an '06 Duramax and the thing was a powerhouse... acceleration included.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:45 PM   #39
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6.6 litre...

Peak torque was actually much lower RPM but the operator was having problems getting the transmission to lock into direct drive below 2300.
This was an '06 Duramax which was running the 32 bit Bosch system and he didn't have the proper CANDii adapter.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:35 AM   #40
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Interesting. I hope this forces Toyota to bring some serious changes to the Tacoma.
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