Hard shift into 1st or reverse when at full stop

So I've had this problem for a while now, and have just been dealing with it, but now the truck is almost paid off and im trying to get all the bugs worked out. Truck is a 4cyl 5 speed access cab, 4x4 2010 with about 101,000 on it at the moment

When at a full stop, either at a stop light, or just taking off from the driveway, it is extremely difficult to shift into 1st or reverse. If i run through the sequence of 4-3-2-1, with the clutch in, it makes things a little easier, but the shift into 1st still takes a lot more effort than i would like. Revving it up also helps slightly, but I'm definitely forcing the shifter into 1st gear regardless

I had to have the crappy clutch replaced at 50,000 a year into owning it (drove a ton for work at the time, and I bought the truck new in 2010). Toyota wouldnt cover it since i was over the 36,000 for the TSB. Had a friends mechanic do it on the side for half the price of what toyota wanted.

I've narrowed it down to 4 possible issues, only 1 i know how to check myself.

1 - Shifter seat is bad (if anyone has tips on how to check this, id appreciate it)
2 - Transmission bolts are loose and no longer properly mated to the clutch housing (easy check, i just live in minnesota and dont have access to a garage, so all work happens in my driveway in the cold
3 - Air in the lines, clutch not fully releasing
4 - The pilot bearing has seized inside the clutch housing (i've got a bad feeling this is it, but it involves pulling the clutch housing off the transmission)

Any ideas or helpful comments? anyone run into this before?

 

Subd for info, my truck has nearly the same specs than you (2010, 4x4, around 100 000 miles) and i do experience harder shiftin first when stopped. Sometimes it does get in like in butter but it's pretty rare...

For the reverse, I think the sync can be different from other vehicule but I don't want to get in that because I don't know what I'm talking about lol

Like you said, going in 2,3 and then first it helps a lot

 

anyone out there?

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...on-your-5-speed-transmission-write-up.338836/

 

So I have no idea what the problem is but...I had a'07 with that same issue from the first to last day I had it. Put 270000 mi. on the factory clutch and it never left me stranded. My '12 does the same thing going into 1st and rev.

I have found if I let off the clutch a tiny bit, it will slide right into first. Works for me

 

I would try putting into gear with normal pressure at shifter and while keeping pressure on shifter shut the engine off. If it falls right into gear when engine stops I would be suspect of the pilot bearing or clutch. The syncros in each gear act as a brake to stop the gear so the slider can move into each gear. When your at dead stop and want to shift into first or rev the job of the sycro is to stop the input shaft, if the clutch or pilot is not fully releasing it will take more pressure on shifter to stop input shaft.

 

And the reason that works, is because it causes the input shaft to turn slightly, allowing the gears to line up.
The reason it is bad, is because it adds some (very minor) clutch wear, and could potentially hurt the gears or synchro if your foot slips.

 

Double clutching work?

 

I was going to ask the same. I have this symptom from time to time with my 4.0 6-speed, a quick pump of the clutch and she slides right into gear.

 

Do you have any issues with shifting it into reverse/1st with the engine not running? If no then your clutch is not fully disengaging.

 

Read gearcrunchers threads.

W/o reading them I'd have a couple of questions for you.............

When was your last fluid change and what type was the new fluid?

Are you losing any fluid in the master? A leaking slave can create or contribute to the symptoms you describe as well.

 

So something to consider in your diagnosis. I have an 09 4 cyl 4X4 Access cab with about 105,000 miles and had my clutch allegedly replaced at the dealer at 86,000 miles. I say allegedly, because I had the same issue as you, hard shifting and getting it in gear and my clutch did not feel right even after 3-4 trips to dealer... I got sick of it and decided to do my own brakes after the dealer did my brakes and screwed up the back drum brakes. I had to have the drum cut off and replaced as the spring came apart and wedged in there. Anyhow.

I replaced my own brakes and bled them myself with a Mityvac from harbor freight and 4 pints of Toyota brake fluid after reading threads here and watching youtube videos. So much air in the lines, it was actually frothy. I checked, it was in the lines as i sealed the bleeder line with brake silicone and maintained pressure at the mityvac.

The clutch and brake reservoir are combined in our trucks. one reservoir (not booster thank you for that) for both clutch and brakes. Just found that out. Well, not only are my brakes better, but so is the clutch and shifting. no more notchiness or hard to get in gear. so it is worth a try if you cannot confirm the proper bleeding of your brakes. This is assuming you do not have the electronic brake booster but the round vacuum booster. It could be air in the lines.

edited because I realized I did not state it correctly.

 

Sometimes the gears don't quite mesh right i get it in reverse from time to time just lift the clutch a bit and ease it in... also Rev match when downshifting but don't double clutch on the down shift it takes some practice fo those new to Rev matching

 

Tried this last night, as soon as the engine stopped spinning, fell right into gear with no issues. Seems to confirm my original thought that the pilot bearing isn't doing its job. Anyone know the long terms affect of this? So far, the key has been to make sure i downshift into first while coming to a rolling stop, at the point that the engine speed matches my driveshaft, it slips in perfectly (about 2.5 MPH, or idle speed on an automatic, which seems to make sense in my head)

Interesting thought about the brake lines and clutch lines being run off the same booster, so ill look into that. I'm about to schedule my CAT recall replacement, and will see if they can confirm the pilot bearing issue.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

It's very unlikely it's the pilot bearing. I've replaced hundreds of those and most are perfectly fine. I would suspect a disc hanging up on the input shaft so it still stays slightly engaged with the pressure plate as far as air in the system how does the clutch pedal feel? Do you have to push it close to the floor for the clutch to disengage?

 

The only thing that is "combined" is the reservoir. If you look at it carefully, you will see that there is a tube running from a bypass plug on the housing below the reservoir down through the firewall to the clutch master cylinder, which is inside the cab at the top of the clutch pedal.

The clutch is not "boosted".

 

maybe the tranny fluid needs to be replaced?

 

I think if we bleed te brakes, change the tranny fluid, replace the pilot bearing, replace the transmission, replace the clutch, resurface the flywheel, have the driveshaft rebalanced and make sure the rear tires are set to 33psi we should be able to solve the problem.

Do the test I told you about and report back. It will tell you if your looking at a tranny problem or a clutch problem then go from there. Diagnosing is a step by step process that has to be followed in a logical way. You could also look up a flow chart that will help you with this.

Remember the saying KISS? Keep It Simple Stupid. Most problems are just that, simple.

 

Yes, you are correct, didn't realize I wrote the wrong thing. Thank you. I edited post.

 

Nope, the clutch disengages at the normal point it always has, so i dont think there are any issues with air in the lines