3rd Gen Poll: Rear End Noise howling when feathering throttle

I keep hoping it won't have to come to that. I understand and share your frustration. My truck has the howling too. I also litigate for a living and I keep telling myself they can't let this go much longer. Then months pass by and my train of thought turns more to surely they won't try to ignore this. But, then I remind myself of the GM vibration issues and get ticked off and maybe a bit paranoid.

Tons of people could Lemon Law these trucks if they choose to. Lemon Law claims are not that hard. If people started doing that Toyota would certainly listen or a lot of folks would be getting trade assists (to keep them from having to classify the vehicle as a Lemon). My experience with Toyota so far is that they are a bit different than your American corporations. The Big 3 know they have turned out some bad cars over the years and if you push them enough you don't have to be a lawyer to get a trade assist. Toyota takes a "how dare you" approach and they make you put up or shut up. Even then they fight you tooth and nail. You may get an extended warranty out of them but they rarely admit fault or admit building a bad car. People bring up the frame replacement program as a sign of Toyota good will. I commend them for it but how many people were kicking and screaming and filing claims before they did it? How many 4Runner frames got replaced?

This is not my first Taco and I just got my last Taco in February so I admit I am not aware of how many people are actually affected and am not aware of how long this issue has been going on. If this has been going on for a long period of time and we are no closer to a remedy, or if Toyota starts saying the trucks are OK so we should deal with it, then the masses will need to decide if getting together is a viable option. I keep holding out hope that we will have a fix soon. I just hope my idea of soon aligns with Toyota's idea.

Best of luck to all and let's keep each other informed. Once things slow down for me I'm going to either get them to fix mine (maybe a pipe dream), LL it or get it fixed by a private shop. I don't care if it voids the warranty for the rear diff. What good is the warranty on that part now? If the private shop fixes it and provides a warranty then it is a win win. I do hate to be out of pocket for this and think it is a shame but it is an option. I'm on here just like everyone else because I'm a Taco fan.

 

Somebody here has already stated as much and a few of us are willing to back him financially. If mine goes, I have someone in mind who will do the work. If they find something wrong I'll document it and litigate to preserve both my warranty and have my truck fixed. As I've stated before, if my truck makes the noise I'll post my experiences here. I twin-charged my 2003 Cooper S and swapped out the cylinder head and still made them honor my warranty when my engine wiring harness decided it wanted nothing to do with me anymore.

While I do wrench I've been around the block long enough to know my barely passable skills aren't up to screwing with a diff.....and while I have some ideas based on the noise I heard on a coworker's truck, I also realized it could be several things....or none.

I've seen a lot of these car issues come and go. Some pan out, some end up being a lot of pain over nothing:

1. Evo 9: supposed faulty trannies on the MR 6-speed - later proven to be super light flywheels doing a bad job of dampening torsional vibrations from the motor. People theorizing for years, lawsuits threatened, dealers ridiculed. Amounted to nothing. Every bad tranny (and there were very few of them) was blamed on this, but the noise ended up amounting to diddly over squat...and believe me, the differential theories were flying. Every part of that assembly was blamed at one point or another.

2. VW TDI HPFP Grenading and spraying shrapnel through the CR - actually proven out by community. First by diagnosing the failure, then said mechanism for that failure. Resulted in huge warranty extension and part upgrade campaign (reluctantly) by VW. One of the few instances where I've seen some bright dudes in the community put their skills together and try to fix something rather than light torches and buy pitchforks. Largely negated and eclipsed by diesel gate. Every time one o the HPFPs went int cost about $10K to get the car on the road again.

3. Ram 2500 main seal leaks. Proven out finally to be assembly lube "sweating off". Theorized to be main seal, pan gasket, even a breather tube that does not exist on the TC. Dealers were accused of hiding the issue, FCA was accused of a massive cover up. Proven to be nothing. People laugh it off now, but in 2012 or so it was all the talk. A gloomy period indeed for the Cummunists.

4. Ford 6.7L F250/F350 exhaust valve issues - primarily of the left cylinder bank. Truck would go into regen and then try to shake itself into a million little pieces. Apparently Ford had the brilliant brain fart to only pump extra fuel through the left head during regeneration. Pretty much killed the exhaust valves. Owners eventually got a fix from FoMoCo in which the head was pulled and all eight exhaust valves sere replaced. We lost over half our crew truck fleet to this fiasco. They also re-flashed the ECU to go revert to the early 6.7 strategy of using both banks for regen. In the end did not help. We sold off our trucks after they continued to do to Macarena down the interstate. Ford continues to sell this motor with this issue. The 6.0, the 6.4 and the 6.7 powerchokes - an ongoing testament to why no one should ever buy a Ford diesel. Still, a bulletproof 6.0 command top dollar on the used car market. Go figure.

I could go on, but you get the point. Some people think they now what's going on, but narrowing the issue down to everything that could go wrong with a diff is not progress and in the end doesn't further the cause. I'd be willing to wager Toyota has an idea by now what the problem is, but do not assume your dealer is in on this knowledge. If there is an engineering issue, they will take their time in finding the most cost effective way (for them) possible to rectify it....if it's a manufacturing issue, they are actively trying to pin it on said manufacturer behind the scenes. In the meantime, no dealer is going to absorb the cost of a repair unless ToMoCo is in on it.

In the meantime, if the noise causes anyone that much grief, sell the darn truck. If it gets to a point where this vehicle begins to aggravate me, it will be sold. Despite some people's fears, the resale values on these trucks is just plain stupid.

In the meantime, buy a Ram - then and learn to use the tow/haul mode because of the dead pedal issue. Enjoy going back to the dealer for countless recalls and TSBs and then enjoy the abysmal resale value. Buy an F150 and deal with the never-ending master brake cylinder drama or the fun of having your tranny have a grand mal seizure every 80K miles or so. There is no greener grass in the automotive world, just a different headache and a different group on another forum getting pissed off.

Having said all that, I understand your pain. I really do.

 

My situation is different as I cannot " sell it" I did a lease to own. Imagine paying all the fees for a vehicle with a faulty differential? That's insulting and wrong.

 

Problem may go back farther than we think....this link is on a 2013 Tacoma....sound familiar?

https://repairpal.com/does-anyone-e...se-from-the-rear-end-at-58-60-mph-602#answers

http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_ServiceBulletins/sb0057t13.pdf

Second link provided to me from a Toyota Tech at a Bay Area Dealership. I'd suggest anyone with the problem present it to the dealer looking at your vehicle. Looks like the problem also affected the second gens....8 years of second gens.

On Saturday I stopped at the dealership - working out a deal for a friend on a TRD Pro 4R. A friend of the family is one of the sales managers.

Informed him of what I had been hearing on the internet about the whine/howl - he walks me over to a service advisor who says "this isn't a third gen thing, we had a tsb on this on the second gens".

The advisor walks me over to the tech who gives me the TSB info and tells me he has been replacing rear diffs on Tacomas going all the way back to 2005 or 2006 for the whine between 50 and 60 mph.

 

Addendum:

The TSB mentions it does not apply to Tacoma with the LSD or locker - tech said this was later modified. Lockers were also affected by this TSB.

 

Great information. I bought a subscription to Toyota TIS. 15 bucks for 2 days. I can't wait to see what internal documents or TSBs are floating around. Hopefully it will prove useful.


I'll try and post everything I can find here.

 

Interesting.

Although that TSB recommends replacing the diff. I've had mine replaced and it didn't make a difference.

 

I have the original pdf of this TSB saved. Drop me a line and I'll send it to you if needed.

I think the point is that this is nothing new, which may indicate why the dealerships are being so cagy about it. Tech I talked to was surprised that (1) people thought that this was a 3rd gen issue only and (2) that dealerships seemed to be confused as to what to do. His actual quote was
(not word for word):

"We have been replacing differentials in Tacomas ever since I worked here and I've been here for 12 years. We finally got a TSB for them in 2012 or 2013....I'll look it up for you. We'll probably get one soon for the 2016 and 2017s."

 

What is interesting is that we do not hear the second gen owners reporting this, but 2005 to 2013 Tacoma were affected by the same whine/howl.

What I'm not sure of is whether or not the fix worked on the 2nd gens.........my guess is the fact that we are seeing the same issue in the current model means that they never have taken care of the problem.

 

This was my thought when the howl initially started--that our 3rd gen cabin noise is MUCH quieter (the guys coming from a 2nd gen can attest to this) so naturally we pick up ALL the noises the truck makes. I'm sure many 2nd gens have a slight howl but with a noisier cabin, are less likely to pick up on it.

 

That first link you posted the OP mentioned that replacing the diff fixed the issue, which is great. Just wasn't my experience.

I'm assuming there is either a materials issue or the diff assembly issue. I was told there will be a TSB for it but it may not totally solve the issue.

 

Is rear end noise common at 72K odometer?

Another Noise Question/Thread

Recall 2013 taco double cab

Rear Differential needs replaced....60,231 miles

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...l-in-a-14-its-normal-huh.366687/#post-9999883

Threads and posts - Second Gen Howl and TSB. Should give some perspective to what has and is going on. Several members reporting it, TSB issued, some members having several second gens with the issue, one member claiming all Toyota trucks he's had have had similar noises.

 

This should be amended......see the links posted in Post #3004.

 

FYI.. update. Dealer visit #8 and 2 calls to the Toyota hotline my dealer said a rep was coming out to inspect my truck. I drop off my truck Monday at 7AM. 8hrs later and still no call from my dealer. I call the service manager and he said we have a diff coming in from a dealer in Chicago. It's going to be a few days. 1 .... dealerships never inform you about anything and you need to stay up their ass. 2... I didn't damage this piece of shit , so they should bend over backwards to keep my business. 3.... why is Toyota dragging ass on this issue?

Also several dealers in Milwaukee don't give loaners. They rent cars and you pay out of pocket. Toyota hotline called several dealers to set up appointments and 2 charge for a rental even under warranty. The Toyota phone rep repeatedly stated "it's a warranty issue", and the dealer said "sorry!"


This dealer
Don Jacobs Toyota
south 27th st
Milwaukee
Said they would need the truck a few days and charge for rental , plus The hourly service fee for inspection!!!!
All this with the Toyota hotline guy on the phone... he sounded shocked!

 

I spoke to a lawyer yesterday. He said Toyota is the WORST. " I'd rather deal with the Mafia" ha.

The 3 times rule, also applies to visits/attempts. My friend has also been waiting 30+ days on his gasket recall. In CA.

From what I understand is they hate issuing a TSB on something so expensive like a differential. Hoops and hurdles.

 

My truck is on a rack in the air waiting on the differential delivery from Chicago. They told me it said it was in Chicago but on back order. He was sure what that means. I said backorder means not in stock and they are waiting for shipping. He didn't seem amused. Hey buddy I'm not happy about a $40k truck with a major issue before 15,000 miles. Should have it in by tomorrow if they aren't yanking my chain some more.

 

I'm surprised they let you in the service area. It's usually the "against policy bs if you get hurt we are liable" Mumbo jumbo. Let's hope your new diff stays quiet.

 

I've never been told that.

 

All current TSB's still no mention of rear differential whine or howl.. From Toyota TIS.

 

That's what the service manager told me. They had a field rep look at it. Or he just gave me a line of bs to get me to shut up.
It's been in the air since Monday. Yes in the air and today they said the diff is on back order. Make sure you get a dealer loaner when you drop yours off for differential replacement! It may take a while...