Initial thoughts going from v6 to 4cyl

Just did some googling 3800 for 2.7, 4600 for 3.5

 

I had an 08 2.7/MT and now have a 17 3.5/AT. Huge difference in acceleration. The 2.7 would cruise along once you got it up to speed and going, but getting there...... Took a while. Actually, the 2.7 is fine for most purposes. I don't tow anything heavy and the 2.7 would handle anything that I might need to pull. But the 3.5 is a drag racer by comparison.

 

3rd gen 2.7 does not feel like an 08 2.7.

 

Me too..

To be clear, I'm not trashing the 4cyl. But lets just look at the facts:

So the 2.7 produces 180 ft/lbs peak @3800; and

the 3.5 gets 265 ft/lbs peak @ 4600. Yup, that's lower in the power band.

Both of these values are at the crank BTW.

Now, what is the 3.5 producing for torque at 3800 RPM?

Here's an OVTune dyno chart that helps piece together the puzzle - NOTE THAT THE SHOWN VALUES ARE AT THE REAR WHEELS:



Answer: The 2GR is putting down 175+ ft/lbs at 3800 rpm in stock tune (pink line). At the rear wheels.

 

They both have similar flat torque curves from 2000 RPMs up with the 3.5 having 70ish more lb/ft of torque all the way across. The 3.5 holds it better to 5200 rpms vs 4000 for the 2.7.

I've noticed the drop off in torque at highway speeds which is the only place I wish my 2.7 had more power. Luckily I drive more rural curvy roads at <65 mph so I don't miss the higher end power I would get from the 3.5.

I requested a dyno sheet comparing the 2 engines and someone posted this for me. Post #107.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/how-do-those-4cylinder-tacos-run.492443/page-6#post-15521460

 

Here at my shop we’ve got our fair share of absurdly lifted full size domestics, and 4 tacomas for the guys who actually take their trucks out to play. 2 3rd and 2 2nd gens after a guy traded in a 2nd. Any discussion on this forum has been beaten to death in person with facts and figures pulled from our phones even at all hours of the night but in the end we drew our own conclusions from Lunch time pissing contests on a private road. Thank god. And that’s how I learned not to believe everything I read on TW.

 

Yup, including the ppl who provide no facts/figures yet go on and on about how they know their engine is better than the other. I wish ppl would just enjoy their trucks and not get into e-dick measuring contests about shit that don't matter lol. I bought my truck with a V6, you bought yours with a 4cyl. So fuckin what?

 

In life, and in truck engines, there are trade offs.

Beers

 

You'll get a dyno sheet that compares directly to the 2GR when OVtune works his magic on the 2.7 . Same dyno, same "master tuner" - Mat Wilson.

 

Hey!! If that puppy puts a smile on your face, hop in and drive down the road with a big old grin. And refrain from the temptation to try and turn another guy's socks yellow. I've owned 2.7s with 5spd and AT, and a 3.5 6MT. I like(d) all of 'em, some more than others. YMMV.

 

^^^^Wisdom

 

I don’t think anyone here is trying to ruin someone’s socks. This isn’t that thread (so far). This is more of a realization by a few (so far) that the 2.7 isn’t nearly as bad as it’s made out to be by people who are only counting cylinder numbers on one end of the spectrum and crank numbers at the other end.

I’ll edit that chances are it’ll become that thread at some point.

 

I feel like Toyota did a great job of gearing the 2.7/5MT to have great driveability for in town or rural driving. If I did a lot of highway driving I'd prolly opt for the 3.5. Different tools for different jobs.

 

Agreed, and even more so on the trails, though reverse is gnarly.

 

I've driven the 3.5L in automatic and manual, AC and DC configurations and 4x2/4x4. I've also driven the 2.7L automatic and manual in AC and DC configuration in 4x2 and 4x4. The V6 has more pep in it and you'll feel it pull after 4K+ rpms. In the 2.7L, you'll feel the pull around 3.5K-4K rpms. Regardless in the RPM band, the V6 of course has more torque and power. The shift mapping sucks on the auto. Knowing all this, I still purchased a 2017 4cyl 4x4 auto and I've done the final test drive back to back. Why 4cyl auto? It will be handed down to my kid next year and I prefer that they drive auto but will still get manual training. I would have purchased a manual if it was just for myself.

What surprising is the driving feel of both 2.7L and 3.5L doesn't feel that far apart. I've driven both on highways and hills.

In comparison, I've also owned several 1st Gen tacoma 4x4 manual with the 3.4L. Even though it's a lighter truck, the V6 also has less power compared to the 3.5L. I still feel the 3.4L is quicker.

I also own a 2nd Gen DC 4x4 that I'm holding on to for a reason.

I really feel that if Toyota had placed the 1GR-FE with dual vvti paired with the current 6 speed auto or manual that it will achieve the same MPG the current 3.5L does.

The Tacoma (1-3gen) is really just not meant for speed and power in their N/A form.

Just my 2 cents.

 

By all accounts it probably would have been a great combination, especially since the manual gearbox was improved in several ways (it's not perfect, though).

Toyota was most likely looking at it from a manufacturing standpoint, in that the 2GR is already widely used in a shitload of platforms. With the -FKS variant introduction into the 3rd gen Taco lineup, that leaves just the T4R still holding on to the 4.0 (I think). Doesn't bode well for the 1GR, it looks very much like it's being phased out. Too bad the Taco was first!

 

Just to be clear, this wasn't a pissing contest. I thoroughly like the v6. With the manual that thing screamed when you let it loose.

All I was saying is the butt dyno/real world feel seems minimal difference, and I don't lug up hills as bad as it seemed in the v6.

Now everyone drives different and my style of driving may make it that way.

 

Well said. I love my 2.7, but to be completely fair it suffers from the same set of problems the 3.5 has, which is cantankerous shifting and throttle mapping.

I think the LCE headers are a great mod to the 4 banger though. Pushes that torque peak higher and lower, and doesn't really change the in-cabin noise.

I am looking forward to this soooooo much. An 87 octane map that makes things just a tad meatier all around but mainly removes the bonkers shift logic and the "lazy" throttle.

 

The 4 banger was gutless when I attempted to get on the freeway... it had no power. I went with the v6 for the extra get up and go... 4 cylinder has its place however. It's all about what you use your truck for.

 

I hear that!
Good news is that the V6 M/T tune is in the works now, so it shouldn't be toooo much longer for the 4 banger love