clutch disc + pressureplate factory parts: mysterious typeA vs typeB ; with pictures (I bought both)

This is FYI/informational, though a mystery lurks within. A quirk in toyota's sourcing and/or design-differences? in the 2 main clutch parts ( disc + pressure plate pair );
I stumbled into it before removing anything, just over-bought new parts so far.
I decided to buy both versions and return a pair afterwards. Bless one particular MA dealer saving me $200 below retail... online sales, ship-to-you OR pickup-when-ready . (Ernie Boch-South, Attleboro MA, said OK if I don't ruin the packaging/boxes/cleanliness).

My 2006 2.7 4wd 5speed is rather stock, its 110k miles = boring not off-road, though perhaps owner1 had a boat. I got it at 90k from its 2nd owner, I paid big-$ : he got a free new frame. Here in rusty/salty New England, car/truck beauty = as seen from a creeper, i say. Back to mechanics, my clutch is smooth, generally doesn't slip but has no balls in extreme situations (resists, then smells in a few seconds) e.g. attempting to pull my baby truck out of mud, etc. My 1999 4runner had way more clutch power at 170k : duh, 6cyl, and I drove all those 170k myself. But I ramble. I'm replacing this 2.7L's clutch with factory parts proactively, even after reading a few in this site's horror/sad stories re: failures,flaws, and I don't doubt there's design flaws in some packages, but that may be irrelevant to the "which type?" mystery I've run into just trying to buy the right parts. I'm keeping faith in the factory parts, just have to match the parts we find to either pair of the parts I've got and are 3/4 pictured below.

The mystery of "which type/part#s should I buy?" may be aided using below pictures and a peek through the fork hole (pop some of the rubber boot out of the fork hole, peek in and look for holes or NO holes on the pressure plate's shell facing the rear, I've not done this yet, but seems peek-able since the fork hole is near it, near the rear of the bell housing. Below: pictures of new parts ...one shows what the "holes/slots" look like on the type A presssure plate. Also using the PDF/part-diagram, the holes/slots start to make sense = become identifiable to your eye.

The mystery of "why are there 2 versions, what is the functional difference?" is still over my head. But I've bought both, and even between me and my local mechanic (i want him to do this one, he's good, I'm old..and he lets me bring my own new dealer parts) ........ I rather doubt I'll find out the WHY/difference functionally. ( spine holes in disc look the same....)

So onto the gory trivia. Strangely enough, and I don't know which YEARS all this typeA, typeB stuff applies to, but I bet it spans a few years.

Turns out that unlike 99.x% of toyota parts, the DISC and PRESSURE PLATE exact part numbers can NOT be pinpointed from just the VIN using the dealer parts system; there's a TYPE A and a TYPE B version. Though I can't swear they're not interchangeable, they COST the exact same price (A vs B) and the dealer says you gotta look then decide/match. There's a note (i was told) in the toyota system saying "look for the holes in the pressure plate". Now to explain "holes" visually: I've opened 3 of my new 4 boxes to compare, realized that the pressure plate is where you'd start + identify, and to confirm, below PDF has toyota dealer/parts diagram = even more helpful AFTER you've SEEN my pic and/or your pressure plate. Look for the "HOLES/SLOTS" that exist in type A ; kind of like spokes/slots in wheel rims but there's 9 of them; if your pressure plate has none, it's type B.

A whole nuther post might be fun on the amazing/tiny in-cabin (next to foot pedal) master clutch cylinder. Seems like filling it = challenge I'll be learning soon.

 

Adding a picture of attempt to eyeball the pressure plate (to determine typeA or typeB) through the fork hole with rubber boot semi-removed. It's very difficult! I had no one to bump the starter to see the pressure plate rotated a little. What this picture shows seems to me = "flat/smooth pressure plate cover" without holes (thus type B). But I wouldnt trust myself on this.

Tangent: see the small crack at lower LH corner of my fork hole? Not a problem yet, I believe, but I will put some JB weld on it in hopes of being safer. Just below/inside the fork's square hole near that LH corner, you can see a small portion of the pressure plate. Hope this helps someone despite the near impossibility of eyeballing it before removal. Still wondering what the functional difference is between the two disc/plate types.

 

Type A disk is the more robust, and better choice.

Those blue plastic dampers in the Type B, break and fall out. Huge problem when that happens. Springs bouncing around like a pinball is the lucky least amount of damage.

I've replaced plenty of the plastic style Type B disks, for factory replacement disks without the plastic dampers.

 

Much appreciated...I convinced myself (fool) we should MATCH whatever type you have.

Now I see you can just go with type A blindly, if you know what you just told me.

Dropping the truck off tomorrow. Great timing! thanks-doug/OP

 

I RE-researched and found another internet posting w more useful info, to me at least. The TSB mentioned adresses the RATTLE mentioned...and... *I* have the rattle! (my original mystery actually, the sound/rattle reminded me of engine timing chain slopping against 73 Hilux timing case) ...here/now=2006 truck, my ear/brain wondered, hoping case/trans/whatever-in-neutral was OK.
I feel better now!
I only heard it in driveway in morning/cold, even an obsessor/I could live with it. I'm replacing my clutch cuz it slips under loads I don't normally give it, but I expect some balls from a 4WD in low/low.
============prob1:ignored and not a real problem I believe: the RATTLE.
Since this year I'd rather let my garage/pro do the clutch but I bring the parts, I mentioned my rattle to my mechanic (when I mentioned the rattle, he thought maybe pilot noise. He didnt think of a rattle in a clutch disc, nor would I until now. I was a wrench once so I tend to trust my ears; I would Never have thought disc...hmm,plastic parts right!....ow, it gets worse, toyota LIKES "new/blue/rattlers"
and disrespects the older LUK/type A, and to confuse us all, sells both versions.

========prob2 could be slipping....in my case, I just called it old = replace.

===prob3 became choosing the right parts, so understanding A vs B, old/new/etc became key.

THE PARTS I BOUGHT NOW (apr2018) include BOTH so I could choose on the fly:
type A disc+plate, type B disc+plate, thinking I had to match what I found inside. duh!

I notice: ALL FOUR BOXES say Made in Mexico. OK i hope!
The Type A pressure plate has engraved...... Luk or LUK. Aha! Mentioned in the TSB.
But the TSB (below) says............use THEIR/2011 type B (w newer plastic ! I'm losing my mind ! )

Since knowledge is power until we go insane,
here's the internet posting from a 2011 5spd 2.7 owner.
Hope posting a link is OK here...even one from another tacoma forum.......

from http://www.tacomahq.com/861/tacoma-manual-transmission-rattling-noise/

the CONFUSING aspect of the above link....A vs B...is a reversal of the OLD=low#=GOOD
mantra ; of course the dealers will fall for whatever toyota tells them and old != always-better

Now a review of the new dealer parts I BOUGHT:
where typeA = the OLDER parts, no plastic, lower part#s,
and type B == newer, higher part#s, with blue paint on the springs and blue plastic inserts.

Now I shut up and paste below, the meat of the above link. It's a lot like like my story where more research runs into ratholes! He started with prob= slipping at 20-30k miles! He ends up finding my rattle, and a TSB saying "the LUK is the one to get rid of, use Aisin".

Me vs him/below: his = 2011 = higher part#s than mine....
me = 2006, I don't tow, so I don't slip my clutch on roads/uphills.


...from "Recalls and TSBs" TSB: 2005-2011 Tacoma Manual Transmission
RATTLING NOISE ( posted sep 2011 ) by Jason Lancaster

Are you are owner of a 2005-2011 Toyota Tacoma with a 5-speed manual trans ?
Do you notice a rattle noise when the vehicle is idling in neutral?
If you fall within the warranty guidelines, contact your local Toyota service
department to see if you can have it repaired.

In an August 19, 2011 Technical Service Bulletin (TSB), dealers were notified
that some Tacoma vehicles equipped with the R155 5-speed manual transmission
may exhibit a rattle noise from the transmission assembly
while in neutral with the clutch pedal released.
Toyota has produced part numbers and specific information
for use with repairs of this problem.

This TSB affects some 2005-2011 MY Tacoma vehicles using
Clutch Cover Assembly part numbers 31210-04080 thru 04083 and
Clutch Disk Assembly part numbers 31250-04090, 04091, 26230 and 26231.

Replacement parts should be as follows:

Clutch Cover Assembly – 31210-26172
Clutch Disk Assembly – 31250-60500

Also of important note, the dealer will need the following
Special Service Tools (SSTs) for repair:

Clutch Guide Tool -09301-00210

Clutch Diaphragm Spring Aligner – 09333-00013

Here’s the TSB process:

Step 1: Confirm there is a rattle noise from the transmission assembly
when the clutch pedal is fully released and the transmission is in neutral.
If the noise is coming directly from the transmission assembly,
check to see if the noise goes away when the clutch pedal is fully depressed.
If this is the case, the remainder of the steps should be followed.

Step 2: Replace the clutch disk. Check the clutch cover for manufacturer AISIN.
If the clutch cover is NOT manufactured by AISIN,
if will also require replacement.

Step 3: Once the repairs are complete, test the vehicle to confirm
the rattle noise has disappeared.

 

Sooo, installing clutch disk A, with the Aisin pressure plate, or LuK pressure plate?

 

Fingers crossed it's not the LuK one lol...cause chances are he won't have good LuK with that one...See what I did there?

The factory clutch in mine was the Type A for the disc, and the Aisin pressure plate. Interesting stuff.

 

OP> Stalling; visited toyota dealer Service this time, got better-than-expected free advice,
even got a printout TSB: T-SB0103-11 Rev1 aug2011 ("though i shouldnt be giving you these")
with him circling the TSB-specified part Numbers. (both typeB. You warned against B here,
I'm still waffling...leaning -> dealer/TSB recommendation.
Praying they fixed some plastic nightmare(s) after you swore them/B off.


Though I bought 2 disks/2plates last weekend,
And above showed side-by-side pictures of disks 31250-04091(A) and 31250-26232(B)
oops, 31250-26232 ISNT THE LATEST, so one more item to return, and buy
(TSB says update them all to: Clutch Disk Assembly 31250-60500
and dealer/service-good-guy said, for clutch, there's no newer TSB than 2011.

repeated, if I/one chose to believe Toyota TSB vs your good advice, it's
T-SB0103-11 Rev1 aug2011 "5-speed Manual Transmission Rattle Noise in Neutral".

---picture time : though i DONT have the newest disk, stay tuned:
The recommended Cover(pressure) Plate
(i just opened my box, confident to use THIS item next week)
shows Aisin ; mfg'd 03/18 i think ! so here's 31210-26172 with impressive engraving.
Been too long, but I seem to recall heat-tempering has that look
(out of factory box: nasty/cool burnt/blackish metal spring fingers)

 

More dealer/parts torture/fun! Above, we learned to NOT trust online parts diagram's part numbers.
Trying to mate/get the BEST disk for the 31210-26172 above, got PN from TSB,
entered "31250-60500" in dealer-online-parts website, it returned 31250-60501 ;
Which sounds good ("replaces 31250-60500" it says); i try to BUY it, also providing my VIN;
dealer-parts-guy taking my order replies "Won't fit! Got 2 other numbers that do though!"
Groan. ToBeContinued. TSB T-SB0103-11 Rev1 shows one pair of PN's(disc,cover) covering the entire
2005-2012 Tacoma Transmission: 5MT (R155 5-speed); and lists (4) Previous Part Numbers
for 31250- ( -04090,-04091,-26230,-26231 ) (REPLACE w/)Current Part Number.

TSB written 2011, naturally doesn't list the -26232 I just got, but I have doubts about.

Since 31250-60500 replaces all above (4), surely 31250-60501 = another fully-compatible.
Advice? thanks--though i doubt anyone can follow this. Worst "closet/corner-case of parts mutation" ever? ...revealing web online diagram update(NON-update) issues. New!Shiny!Unmaintained! -doug

 

Simplified re-statement of status/pondering here. (gotta install next week.) Tor asked,
which i think == his recommendation and -04091 IS simplest;
Tor>....(are you) installing clutch disk A, with the Aisin(/B) pressure plate ?

doug/OP> That does sound like an option if mixing A with B is truly OK. You already implied so?

I do kinda wanna SEE/buy that from the TSB/newest though, once I get past parts guys trying to save my neck from their blender.

 

I'll get the new(est) disk tomorrow and post a pic hopefully.

Another gent on another forum,
who started his research project due to slipping (not the Rattle the TSB is titled for)
on his new-ish(18-20k) 2011...
this link is worth a read, its conclusion= problems are all LUK, go w/ latest type B.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/6...15/402099-manual-clutch-quality-tsb-info.html

 

In a haze of "follow the yellow brick TSB", I was happy to see (and you can see) Aisin stamped on the latest revision (31250-60501 shown here) of what was recommended in 2011 (31250-60500). Note that two of the springs have plastic blue retainers? around the springs, and 2 have plastic black retainers. Type B revXX....but not made in mexico, i think, though -26232 was. Kinda sad that they stock and sell (and dealer websites lead you to) the questionable versions.

Returned the type A disc with a sniff of nostalgia (was indecision); gonna install this along with 31210-26172 pressure/cover plate shown above, along with pilot+throwout bearings (of course) and new slave cyl. I'm thinkin I should shut up and y'all can assume the best for my result. I do appreciate both dealerships whom I deservedly torturedXXXXXXXspoke-with this month (one for free advice, the other for big savings..I appreciated easy full-refund returns on THIS fquest/fiasco hopefully prevented).

 

Hello All!
I know this is an old thread, but I have not found a conclusive update to the Rattle in the manual transmission. I have looked over a bunch of other threads and have found this to be named, but not a clear sense if this is a problem, and causing damage to the transmission, or just something to live with.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/poll-diesel-like-noise-clutch-determinative.50626/

First post,love all the info and dedication and passion for Tacoma's here! I just bought a 2012 Tacoma 2.7 5spd Manual 4x4 Access Cab. Have been wanting one for many years. It has 115k miles single owner. I just noticed that I have the transmission rattle in neutral, idle which gets louder with load on engine-- AC compressor turns on, or even holding the UP window switches. As this happens there is the loud "diesel" like rattle which I traced to the transmission. Push clutch in and rattle stops. Release it quickly and it comes back louder. RPM's go up, rattle decreases.


The Toyota TSB: T-SB0103-11 Rev1 aug2011 -- Describes the rattle perfectly, and leads me to believe that it is a problem that should be fixed. Other people have said that they thought it was the shaft in transmission.

Carp in the thread above posted this:

Neutral rollover rattle has the same
characteristics as gear rattle except rollover
occurs with the engine idling, transaxle in
NEUTRAL and the clutch engaged. The rollover
noise intensity increases with transaxle operating
temperature and engine torque load resulting
from engine driven accessories (air conditioning
and alternator). Gear rollover noise is inherent in
manual transaxles and is not detrimental to the
engine or transaxle. However, in vehicles where
the engine idling speed is below specification or
rough, the rollover noise can deteriorate to a level
where a harsh clattering noise similar to loose
parts in the transaxle will become audible.
Replacement of transaxle components will NOT
correct this condition.
3. Gear rollover noise, caused by engine torsional
vibrations, and clutch release bearing noise are
sometimes mistaken for bearing noise. Gear
rollover noise will disappear when the transaxle is
engaged in gear. Due to a constant running
release bearing noise caused by a worn or
damaged release bearing will be noticeable only
when the clutch is disengaged. When complaints
of this nature are encountered, it will be
necessary to check the vehicle to determine if
bearing noise exists. Transaxle servicing will not
eliminate gear rollover noise or clutch release
bearing noise.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/poll-diesel-like-noise-clutch-determinative.50626/page-5

Is this a problem? Should I be concerned and get fixed? Is this causing damage to the transmission or other clutch assembly parts? Any determination if this TSB extends to 2012's? I was given the option to buy an extended Toyota Care Platinum warrenty for 3 yrs 36k, wondering if that would be a good idea given this situation?

Any sense of what the cost would be out of pocket to get this fixed and if it is best to have dealer do or can private mechanic do just as well?

Appreciate any info!

 

doug/OP, almost 2 yrs since I replaced my clutch parts>

See the blue-or-black plastic pieces in disc, surrounding each spring, in the above pics?
I think they may be the common cause of this relevant/5spd-neutral rattle.
Can't explain exactly why, though; and not all discs HAVE these spring pieces.
My new/2018 disc has new plastic pieces, which don't rattle i think, but it's winter.

Your/our-general rattle may be ignorable as long as noise does not increase.
(as mentioned in above article poll-diesel-like-noise-clutch-blah,
it's louder +maybe only noticeable: hot/summer morning/startups)

You just have to believe it's not the transmission, and keep an ear out for the rattle NOT increasing.
And budget for a new clutch anyways someday, if you can guess how long yours will last.....100k more/less?

LABOR: my friendly mechanic lets me buy parts, charged me $575 labor)
PARTS LIST/prices: online toyota orig parts can be discounted.
clutch cover assy and
clutch disc assy ( these 2 alone around $340 list price )
clutch bearing, R ( PILOT bearing, 5-6 bucks)
clutch BEARING ASSY, list price around 68 ( THROWOUT bearing )
and optional ideas
clutch boot,(for) release fork ( rubber square-ish cover fits into bell housing, if yours looks ugly, $21 list for 31126-36080 )
clutch slave cylinder ( these get gunky, then leak? over a decade .. list maybe $84 ! )

 

Hello,

Thanks for response, I think I replied after you posted, but it doesn't seem to have registered. It has gotten more pronounced. I actually brought it back to the dealer where i bought it and because the sales team had been misleading on a number of other items, the owner agreeded to to the replacement on them. While it is being done, I will have them do rear main seal and throwout bearing. They said they will let me know if anything else looks off.

I appreciate your input. BTW, there is a new TSB that included 2012 models as well.