geekhouse23's "LIFE'S WAITING TO BEGIN" Overland & Home build and all the Adventures in between!

geekhouse23 · Jun 18, 2019

jberry813 said: ↑

Shit!!!! I blew my cover.

Everyone can eat a dick...or something.
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There we go..order restored.

Funny enough, this pick came with my order yesterday:

NunyaBizness said: ↑

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Randall = Bae..

Nimble9 · Jun 18, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

@Nimble9 @boogie3478
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haha nice writeup!

I'm down with the shackle flip. I never compared my dakars and B110s and stock shackle vs dakars and b110s and shackle flip, but it'd be interesting. I have no driveline vibes having a custom 1 piece driveshaft lol

here's @Subway4X4 running that setup with a lot of droop

geekhouse23 · Jun 18, 2019

Nimble9 said: ↑

haha nice writeup!

I'm down with the shackle flip. I never compared my dakars and B110s and stock shackle vs dakars and b110s and shackle flip, but it'd be interesting. I have no driveline vibes having a custom 1 piece driveshaft lol

here's @Subway4X4 running that setup with a lot of droop

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After our chat last night, I still think I misunderstood you in your build thread:

Nimble9 said: ↑

Oh, and I have HD shackle hangers waiting to be installed as well.
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Nimble9 · Jun 18, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

After our chat last night, I still think I misunderstood you in your build thread:
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hahaha i think I meant to say shackles!

geekhouse23 · Jun 19, 2019

Got the white line bushings delivered yesterday

Event/shop to-do list:

- BAMF brace tacked up; leave for them to weld up
- drop off LCAs and bushings to be pressed in
- show off Marlin kit and get a quote

I have a few feelers out for front ADS extended coilovers, rear 12" KONG RR's and Deaver U402 stage 3's. Front coilovers and the Deavers are the priority; even just the Deavers. Rear Kongs can technically wait as my brother will be selling his, but I can't wait forever.

geekhouse23 · Jun 21, 2019

GODDAMN I missed working from home!! Spent the last 3 days in online training from home! I just finished my class and spent some monies!

- BAMF shackles

These will replace the ATO shackles, allow for more flex and I will add the ATO shackles to the SOS bracket as a set. Win-win-win!

Update on suspension quotes:

- ADS front coilovers; FOUND
- Kong front coilovers; FOUND just need to make a decision..leaning towards the ADS still AND they're cheaper than the Kongs..

- Kong 2.0 rear smoothies with RR's; FOUND just need to pull the trigger. Waiting for Deaver quote.

- Deaver stage III U402's; Waiting for a custom quote on a bro price.

Tomorrow's agenda:

- Tack up BAMF hangers crossbrace
- Drop off LCA's to get Whiteline bushings pressed in
- Show off the Marlin Kit and get a quote.

Plan on pulling the trigger on the rear Kongs next week.

GOALZ...minus bypass and LT...

jberry813 · Jun 21, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

GOALZ...minus bypass and LT...

Click to expand...

Fun fact: Andy had stock width arms and bolt in Icons when I first met him. Then he went for a ride in my truck when we were in Death Valley.

He’s all grown up.

Gunshot-6A · Jun 21, 2019

jberry813 said: ↑

Fun fact: Andy had stock width arms and bolt in Icons when I first met him. Then he went for a ride in my truck when we were in Death Valley.

He’s all grown up.
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Sounds like he's a fan...

Speaking of, I didn't add enough postage to our arrangement and it got bounced back. I'll resend it Monday.

geekhouse23 · Jun 21, 2019

jberry813 said: ↑

Fun fact: Andy had stock width arms and bolt in Icons when I first met him. Then he went for a ride in my truck when we were in Death Valley.

He’s all grown up.
Click to expand...

I am calling this project: UnFuck the suspension

Hopefully I can grow up too..

geekhouse23 · Jun 21, 2019

@HIghlande2

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-does-everything-but-sucks-at-everything-build.453332/

IG: atettenhorst

HIghlande2 · Jun 21, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

@HIghlande2

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-does-everything-but-sucks-at-everything-build.453332/

IG: atettenhorst
Click to expand...

Thanks man!

geekhouse23 · Jun 22, 2019

@jberry813

"yOu CaN't GeT aNy DrOoP wItHoUt A sHaCkLe FlIp..."

Flexed perfectly. Had to modify the driver's shackle bolt because it was rubbing on the hanger. No biggie.

Got the crossbrace finished and welded up!! Just need some paint!!

Open house pics...

EatSleepTacos · Jun 22, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

@jberry813

"yOu CaN't GeT aNy DrOoP wItHoUt A sHaCkLe FlIp..."

Flexed perfectly. Had to modify the driver's shackle bolt because it was rubbing on the hanger. No biggie.

Got the crossbrace finished and welded up!! Just need some paint!!

Open house pics...

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You planning on adding any sort of limit straps once you get Kong’s?

geekhouse23 · Jun 23, 2019

EatSleepTacos said: ↑

You planning on adding any sort of limit straps once you get Kong’s?
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Yes, sir.

Project: UnFuck the suspension will include going over everything again, and the means limit straps if needed also. I will wait for the new BAMF shackles, Kongs, and Deavers to all be installed first and then finalize straps.

EatSleepTacos · Jun 23, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

Yes, sir.

Project: UnFuck the suspension will include going over everything again, and the means limit straps if needed also. I will wait for the new BAMF shackles, Kongs, and Deavers to all be installed first and then finalize straps.
Click to expand...

That’s a good idea. Get all that finalized and then measure to see what ya need!

ovrlndkull · Jun 23, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

SHACKLE FLIP VS. BAMF HANGERS REVIEW/THOUGHTS/PLANS

...

In short, I am not sure that I like the look/stance and I think the shackle flip ruined my life!! (over-dramatic)

*DISCLAIMER - I was/am FULLY aware that I would have lost height in the rear going from a shackle flip to an inverted shackle, however, I didn't think it would be THIS drastic or noticeable. (The shackle flip ruined my life.)

I have had the shackle flip for about 3 years and the BAMF hangers for a little over a week. I keep going back and forth in my mind about going back. Part of it is because I have had the shackle flip for so long that I am just accustom to how the truck looks in the rear. The other part of me that tells me to leave it is because, I am not sure that my shackle flip was ever set up correctly. I believe the shackle should have been mounted in the front most hole. I probably would have lost .5" - 1" with the shackle being more at a 45* angle versus 70* seen below. Here is the stock length ATO
shackle at rest, bed unloaded with a topper and high clearance steel bumper with swingout:

Here is, also, the best side by side comparison of the shackle flip (left) versus the BAMF kit (right) taken weeks apart (both with an empty bed, topper and high clearance steel bumper with swingout:

I have no actual numbers from before (kicking myself for it) but I would estimate roughly 1.5" - 2" of height lost in the rear. I should still be at 3" of lift in the rear, and the truck appears to look level; even slightly raked just not as pronounced as before. I like rake. I really do. Pics below:

I don't believe that my leafs are worn that would prompt a "necessity" replacement:

Here are some pros and cons that I can think of/confirm after a little over a week of the new setup:

PROS:
- smoother ride; the old setup used to ride like a dump truck when it was unloaded, even with a swingout and topper

- Vibration from ~55-60mph is COMPLETELY gone! NO MORE VIBES ANYWHERE!!

- rear end feels more planted and controlled; should be even better once I get the crossbrace finished and installed

- regardless of the shackle flip or not, the rear end should droop like a MOFO. Probably even more noticeable now that the shackle is back to being inverted with 12" shocks. The shackle/shackle hanger would be the limiting factor (still need to test flexing/drooping the rear for clearance)

- Reduce leaf pack wear and tear compared to shackle flip; unknown what damage was already done, however, if any.

- No axle wrap vibes/shutters from a dig.

CONS:

- ride height; it's only been 1 week (BAMF) versus 3 years (shackle flip) ..I'm such a bitch..

- I was replacing a hanger bolt Saturday that I snapped during the install and I could no longer sit straight up under the bed of the truck; again, bitch.

- Dragging ass more; more of a chance of scratching bumper on more obstacles

PLANS:

- I will be hanging onto the shackle flip brackets and hardware for now. I will clean them up, paint them and put them in a storage bin. Maybe I will use them again, maybe I won't.

- Leave the BAMF kit installed, cycle the travel in the driveway and take her offroad to test performance.

- Look at a custom Deaver leaf pack (or local shop if applicable); 600lbs of constant load at 4" of lift. Not sure this would really be worth it for an extra inch of lift in the rear, but when the Dakars reach end of life and need replacing, that will likely be the route I take to gain some rake in the rear (provided I keep the BAMF kit installed).

https://deaverspring.com/product/tacoma-2wd-4wd-6-lug-2005-2018-expedition-series-spring/

- Torn between stage II and stage III; Probably stage III

NOTES:

LOL. I know. I use that phrase as an endearing term. I swear

Why inverted? Well you asked for it.

Start by drawing a line between the front spring hanger and the pivot of the shackle/rear spring. Now draw the same line with the shackle flipped. As the suspension compresses, an inverted shackle will allow for more bump travel than a shackle flip. It's line will be higher. Typical responses are to either 1) extend your bump stops or 2) allow the spring pack to go wicked negative arch.

With that said, yes you gain some ride height (again think about the lines) and you will gain some droop. However, every single spring pack on the market is designed for the factory inverted shackle. Flip that around, and now your spring pack will be more loaded at right height when compared to the factory inverted shackle. Look at anyone who's done the flip. Their spring pack is almost flat at ride height. And since every pack is a progressive spring rate, expect your ride to be bumpier and payload decreased.
Some people allow the springs to go more negative. But be aware, this will decrease the lifespan of the pack and make it more susceptible to breaking a leaf when flexed.

I'm of the opinion that if your goal is anything even remotely mid to high speed, shackle flips are the wrong decision. If you are only interested in crawling, the flip will allow more droop at the consequence of less bump. Most crawlers aren't overly concerned with bump travel, but then again there are very few crawling rigs on TW. The vast majority of us are building a rig that we can keep streetable/DD and still be a weekend warrior. IMO a shackle flip doesn't accomplish that (very well).

Also keep in mind, if you bought OE shocks, your shocks are no longer long enough to allow for the added droop travel of a shackle flip. Which means redesigning your shock mounts or new shocks. I call this never ending cycle FOTFUSE: Fix One Thing Fuck Up Something Else.

Something else to keep in mind. A lot of the flips I've seen on TW, folks are using longer XJ shackles (my build included) to get even more droop. Something people seem to forget is a shackle is a lever. The longer the shackle, the larger the lever. Pair that with the completely shit 2 ply sheet metal C-channel frame and you are asking for bent and/or cracked frames due to the frame dovetail. Hense the boxed and plated frame.

And the last but not least tidbit on the shackle flip conversation. As I mentioned, every single pack on the market is designed for the inverted shackle.

One more comparison. Because a shackle flip gives you "sooooo much more droop"

I got so sick of arguing that same thing...nobody wants to spend the money for correct custom leaf packs so they try all this stupid shit to make dakar's or AP's etc work the same way. They'll spend hundreds on shackle flips and stupid shit ...to not spend a few hundred extra where it counts on the leafs.

With my old setup (Dakar and shackle flip with xj shackles) I did some driveshaft measurements and I would have needed a 4* shim on my leaf pack to get the driveline angles in check. For the time being while I had the flip, I had a 1" carrier bearing drop to get 2 of the 3 u-joints in check, but that big of a drop was fucking with the u-joint off the x-fer case flange. So I always had driveshaft vibes.
With the new spring pack and back to stock geometry hangers and shackles and no diff drop, I was only 1.3* off. Generally speaking you want the u-joints less than 1* off, otherwise you will end up with driveline vibrations at some speeds/loads.
I'm super anal retentive and hate driveline vibrations so I went to work with the angle finder. With three stacked washers under the CB I was able to get the angles to 0.1* difference.

-shackle flip just gives you lift and makes you feel like you have more "droop" Depends on shock setup. If you are using OE mounts, you will not get any more droop out of it.
-shackle flip it self doesn't put more load on the springs (ultimately the springs are holding the weight of the truck regardless) but if the wheel is stuffed with the shackles flipped and no bump stops the springs will be subjected to negative arc and shit can get damaged (namely the springs and frame) Mostly. The leaf packs are progressive spring rate. When you do a flip, you are loading the springs more at ride height than compared to the factory inverted shackle. So not necessarily "more load" but perceived ride quality will be bumpier because the spring rate is higher when the pack is flatter.
-shackle flip does not give more "travel" or whatever yall decided on earlier lol Depends if/how much you allow the pack to go negative. Doing just a shackle flip will give you more droop. And if you don't extend your bump stops, you can have more travel by allowing your pack to go more negative. This subject has been beat to death. I'm at the point where I don't care what anyone does. So much utter bullshit spewed off in many threads. My truck, my preferences, my build. I know the ride quality and travel differences with both setups and there's a reason I went the route I went.
-shackle flip can mess up your driveshaft angles. That's for damn sure

Back to inverted hangers.
New Deaver springs installed.
Shackles I built ended up not working out quite right. They were dragging the bushing pretty bad. Will need a slight redesign. But for the time being, stock ones back in place. Truck rides sooooooooo much better than before. Fucking night and day. Just say no to shackle flips kids.

New ride height:

Full droop:

CLOSING THOUGHTS:

*DISCLAIMER #2 - It took me all day to write this up at work and get another dose of @jberry813 to feel better about my decision.

The plan now is to focus on some custom Deaver leaf packs for the rear and ditch the HD Dakars. Those will likely come before I even replace my 12" Billies with my brother's old 12" Kongs. I keep bugging him that he needs to get to a welder and it seems that the better option would be to just buy new and be done with it..at this point.

I am so indecisive about the rear suspension. This is now like the 5th or 6th iteration of the rear setup.

I need to focus on the front end rebuild..hopefully excited new coming on that front..SOON.

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I'll chime in on this because we'll shit I want to.

Shackle flip with stock length springs is only as good as the set up same goes with HH or Bamf. Thankfully the factory has all the correct geometry for HH and bamf to just capitalize and get some good flex out of the stock shackle orientation. You can get some good flex and ride quality out of a flip but it's more than just a bolt on kit there is more to it and people think that it's just easy as a bolt on deal. Correct shackle angles, springs, etc all come into play. Also if you really want max flex from shackle flip go full retard like the Suzuki guys do and go with a missing link set up. But again takes maths and set up to make it work correctly. It's not just a simple bolt on deal. Personally for guys with stock leafs unless you want to put in the work HH or Bamf is the way to go. You can get same flex with less headache and fuss IMO

geekhouse23 · Jun 23, 2019

ovrlndkull said: ↑

I'll chime in on this because we'll shit I want to.

Shackle flip with stock length springs is only as good as the set up same goes with HH or Bamf. Thankfully the factory has all the correct geometry for HH and bamf to just capitalize and get some good flex out of the stock shackle orientation. You can get some good flex and ride quality out of a flip but it's more than just a bolt on kit there is more to it and people think that it's just easy as a bolt on deal. Correct shackle angles, springs, etc all come into play. Also if you really want max flex from shackle flip go full retard like the Suzuki guys do and go with a missing link set up. But again takes maths and set up to make it work correctly. It's not just a simple bolt on deal. Personally for guys with stock leafs unless you want to put in the work HH or Bamf is the way to go. You can get same flex with less headache and fuss IMO
Click to expand...

After yesterday and seeing the flex, I am a LOT happier with the decision to go back. It rides smooth and gets great flex.

I just need the BAMF shackles to come in, order the Deacer springs and get some Kongs. The rear will be done finally.

ovrlndkull · Jun 23, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

After yesterday and seeing the flex, I am a LOT happier with the decision to go back. It rides smooth and gets great flex.

I just need the BAMF shackles to come in, order the Deacer springs and get some Kongs. The rear will be done finally.
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Not knocking your decision at all. Just affirming it. There is a lot more to shackle flips than people understand.

geekhouse23 · Jun 24, 2019

It's time for another Money Monday! Flexing the rear out this weekend really gave me the kick in the dick I needed to get project: UnFuck started.

- 12" RR Kongs ORDERED!

Thanks to Micah and the team at DSM!

Yes, I was going to purchase my brother's old Kongs, but his already have some miles on them and for my peace of mind, I would want them rebuilt before throwing them on. However, the price we agreed to and the price of a rebuild locally would be roughly the same. Even if I were to send them off somewhere and the local shop(s) wouldn't or don't have the capacity to do it, it would be over the cost of new ones. Plus having to wait for a shop (and possibly shipping) to go through, buying new simply made more sense.

- I already have the RR mounts from RuffStuff sitting in the garage ready to go.

- I am not sure if the Kongs come with hose clamps for the RR's and if they do, I am not sure that they are stainless. I sucked it up and splurged on some SS hose clamps for the RR's off Amazon. At $7 a pair and free shipping, I couldn't complain.

I reached out to the local shop yesterday about a quote for the Deaver U402's. I will follow up with them later on this afternoon. Hopefully I can get a good price and pull the trigger on those as well. Then, when everything comes in, install everything all at once.

Later tonight, I plan to start laying down the enamel on the crossbrace and sorting out the hardware using what I have then grabbing grade 8 stuff from Home Depot later in the week and installing the brace this weekend.

I am excited to get the rear finished up and then move on to the front finally. LOTS to do there.

ovrlndkull · Jun 24, 2019

geekhouse23[OP] said: ↑

It's time for another Money Monday! Flexing the rear out this weekend really gave me the kick in the dick I needed to get project: UnFuck started.

- 12" RR Kongs ORDERED!

Thanks to Micah and the team at DSM!

Yes, I was going to purchase my brother's old Kongs, but his already have some miles on them and for my peace of mind, I would want them rebuilt before throwing them on. However, the price we agreed to and the price of a rebuild locally would be roughly the same. Even if I were to send them off somewhere and the local shop(s) wouldn't or don't have the capacity to do it, it would be over the cost of new ones. Plus having to wait for a shop (and possibly shipping) to go through, buying new simply made more sense.

- I already have the RR mounts from RuffStuff sitting in the garage ready to go.

- I am not sure if the Kongs come with hose clamps for the RR's and if they do, I am not sure that they are stainless. I sucked it up and splurged on some SS hose clamps for the RR's off Amazon. At $7 a pair and free shipping, I couldn't complain.

I reached out to the local shop yesterday about a quote for the Deaver U402's. I will follow up with them later on this afternoon. Hopefully I can get a good price and pull the trigger on those as well. Then, when everything comes in, install everything all at once.

Later tonight, I plan to start laying down the enamel on the crossbrace and sorting out the hardware using what I have then grabbing grade 8 stuff from Home Depot later in the week and installing the brace this weekend.

I am excited to get the rear finished up and then move on to the front finally. LOTS to do there.

Click to expand...

They don't come with clamps you gotta source your own. Is DSM tuning them for you?

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