2nd gen manual transmission fix

Yeah exactly, I mentioned this just a little earlier, had Aisin not cast the bellhousing and snout all in one piece we would probably not be dealing with any of this.

That's crazy, what a task that would be if you had to replace the bellhousing. Good to know that Aisin learned a lesson and went back to a more traditional design in the 3rd gens.

 

would the RC60 mate up to the 1gr?

 

Well, if anyone is following what is beginning to look like a CM clutch odyssey, here’s the email I sent them this morning.

 

The 1GR flywheel step is indeed intended to be 1.5mm. Less than that and it would be difficult to release.

As for the RC62 on a 1GR, the bolt pattern between the 1GR and 2GR is not the same.

EDIT: After more research, I believe the 2GR block in the Tacoma is different than other 2GR's an in fact may use the same bolt pattern as the 1GR.

Toyota used the RA, R, and H series manual transmissions behind the 1GR. If going to another transmission is a goal, doing an R150-series transmission may be an option to get away from the AY6/RA60 in the Tacoma.

All the parts exist to bolt it into the Tacoma off the shelf. I suspect the same may be true for the RC62F.

Jeff

 

All the ones I have seen at least, including mine, seem to look like that.

On another note, I have a theory that some of the quills which have broken off using the PD&M (URD) sleeve kit are possibly related to the set screws. There 4 of them in the same plane equally around the base and they are real pointy little devils. I could easily envision tightening them a bit too much and causing metal fatigue right off the bat.

Aware of this I went on the light side when tightening mine because I didn't to stay awake later worrying. I will soon have 40k on the sleeve and have had zero issues.

 

I just got off the phone with Clutch Masters and the OP is correct in his statements a few posts above that their throwout bearing also rides on the fingers of the pressure plate and turns full time.

I asked about whether they had determined the actual force of the T/O bearing against the PP fingers and he said there is no force. Well, this is simply not possible as there has to be some contact force between the two to engage the bearing and cause it to spin full time. A force of nothing can't spin something. He did not seem to understand this and finally stated that the bearing skates on the fingers when I proposed that term.

This is a bit disconcerting to me as detailed discussions I have had previously with clutch engineers at LUK have stated categorically the chirping was result of not enough force of the bearing against the PP as the bearing was skating too much on the fingers.

I do not know how many of you have seen this thread by member @hiadun where he states the same and cured his problem for a very long time by slightly increasing the force: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/fix-for-squeaking-clutch.272427/

So, since this thread originally started as a group buy of the CM kit I think that is all I will say about this and return to cautious optimism hoping the best for the kit and those who have installed.

 

I think you’d struggle to find many hydraulic OE-style throwout bearings that do not maintain full contact with the fingers. It’s pretty much the nature of the design.

 

ill take the hyrdo bearing over the stock setup. alot of the stock setups have uneven wear on the PP fingers. atleast with the hydro bearing you will get even pressure on it.

 

I'll chime in here and say that I've stated numerous times in this thread that I didn't approach CM with the goal of 100% eliminating the possibility of a TOB squeaking and needing to be replaced down the road. When I started looking into replacing my squeaking TOB, I started coming across several instances of catastrophic failure. Those failures were backed up by a local Toyota only mechanic as well. The local Toyota dealership wouldn't say what rate of failures they had seen, but of course they wouldn't admit that their vehicles aren't anything less then perfect. I approached CM with the idea of hopefully eliminating the possibility of a catastrophic failure that could leave me stranded with an inoperable rig.

Yes the squeaking TOB was fixed on my rig too when I placed the slightest amount of force on the clutch pedal. The link you posted explains it, the way the TOB in these transmissions is designed is to have constant preloaded pressure applied to the pressure plate. As @Jeff Lange just mentioned, there is no way any TOB with a clutch fork and pivot ball actuating it will not ride against the pressure plate fingers, at least that I have ever come across in my years of wrenching. I think the difference really comes with how the leverage is being applied to the TOB via the clutch fork/pivot/slave cylinder. The only way you can get away with having a TOB not ride against the pressure plate is to design an internal hydraulic slave cylinder that is fixed at a certain point with some sort of return spring, but would need constant adjustment as the clutch wears for optimal performance (not something I want to worry about). As you stated, it is an aftermarket part, there is a calculated risk installing any aftermarket part, or any mechanical part engineered and manufactured by humans for that matter. The calculated risk I have taken installing this kit far outweighs the possibility of what I have seen and felt the OE setup performing at. I am 98% confident that the CM kit will not wear the quill as seen in the picture posted above, nor will the quill or pivot ball catastrophically fail.

@wrmathis mentioned that the TOB will ride much more evenly on the pressure plate fingers solely due to it's design and the fact that it is actuating the clutch with a direct forward motion and not on any sort of pivot or angle as with the OE setup. I think by nature this will allow the TOB to last longer as it doesn't have uneven forces being applied to it. Only time will tell of course, but at the moment I am still very pleased with my setup, if only for the increased feeling I have with the operation of the clutch.

 

I feel like it would be cheaper to source an entire used transmission and swap it in

Curious to know if the 3rd gen Tacoma fits/could be swapped into a 2nd gen. I hear they shift smoother.
There are some other cases on different cars/transmissions where such interchangeability is possible.

I hear a clutch kit for a 1st gen Taco is cheaper, like $300 all said and done for the whole job.

This reminds me. On Audi it's called a throwout bearing guide sleeve, and it's cheap and replaceable.

 

Well mine is in. Way lighter pedal feel. Have to adjust master, engages near floor. Will report back.

 

If someone made a bellhousing or bellhousing adapter and a clutch setup I'm sure it could be done. As for now, the RC60-series transmission is only used behind engines that have different bolt patterns than the 1GR/6GR (1GD, 2GD, 2GR, 7GR, 1KD, 2KD). It would likely bolt up to the 3GR/4GR/5GR/8GR, but not the 1GR or 6GR.

The Euro transmission manufacturers often design it as a standalone component. Generally Toyota/Aisin integrate it into the front bearing/seal retainer but it's still an easily replaced component that can be made from a material less prone to wear than aluminum. The AY6 (RA-series) is one of the few I've seen that has it integrated with the housing and made from aluminum. As was said, the RC-series moved back to a more "conventional design".

Jeff

 

I take back what I said about the transmission and revise my opinion to: the RC62 might fit the 1GR.

It looks like the 2GR-FKS in the Tacoma uses a different block than other 2GR's, and the transmission bolt pattern is larger and looks like it may match the 1GR's.

Jeff

 

did CM ever reply to this ?

 

They did. I'm still pretty pissed about the situation. Looks like he ordered a new flywheel to measure as well. Gets similar numbers to what I measured.

Now, I have no intention of using this very expensive new flywheel. I simply wanted to measure it. I'll get mine cut to the correct step.



I'm just imagining if I were in a different situation and was paying a shop to do this work.

 

That just sucks.

@ClutchMasters, how about stepping up and shipping Jake a new flywheel along with a will call tag for him to send you the one that was cut to the dimensions you gave him?

 

I wish I would have had the step info before doing this.... My release is near the floor. Hopefully can just adjust pushrod, however, dropping tranny again would be aweful... I sent an email to Kevin as well to confirm step on flywheel.... Will keep posted..

 

I don't think that's necessary. I'm just going to deal with it. What choice do I have really? I'm not after anything for free or anything like that.

Like I said, I consider myself fortunate that I'm not paying someone else for this work.

 

I understand you’re not asking for anything and commend you for that. Seeing that they gave you incorrect information, they could offer some form of compensation for your trouble.