Intro to fitting 35s (< 3" Lifts for those that wheel and love alignments)

@JoeCOVA noticed you switched to F5s. Any reason due to rubbing on the SR8 4 BS I’m assuming you went with the 3.5” BS 16”?

edit: maybe it’s your winter setup?

 

I usually tell people who want to offroad to spend the money once right. This is if they for certain know they love higher speed stuff, camping, offroading, etc. But in general, you're correct. I should have given suggestions with budget kits too. My bad!

 

You nailed it, the SR8s are the summer setup and the F5s are the winter setup. These are actually the 4.5 BS but a non-issue since they are wrapped in a 285/75.

I think we’ve the last snow fall this spring so it’s about time to put the MTs back on.

 

A coil spring is never the limiting factor unless you just have an extremely short spring compared to all the other components. And that spring set up would have to be on something like a Jeep where the coil is seperate from the rest. But the spring will still stretch some. Hard stops in our suspension are the upper ball joint, then shock and lower ball joint, next you have issues with CV angles. I don't know why he said limit straps to keep from damaging your coil because well when a coil becomes completely unloaded it just sits there. It has to be attached at the upper and lower mount then over extended to cause damage. You can do this at home with the coil spring in your ball point pen to illustrate what happens. Some/most of the aftermarket replacement coilovers and struts have an internal bump to keep from damaging them because manufacturers know that well it's a stockish set up and not everyone is going to be setting up limit straps.

 

I think you might have misread the post. He mentioned the shock absorber, not the coil spring. At least that is how I interpret the post.

That said, I thought more about what I posted and came to the conclusion that the coil spring cannot be the limiter unless it is not preloaded, which I do no think is ever the case because it would not be ideal for the coil to have no compression in it at full droop.

My thinking now is that, like you said, the shock absorber must be the limiter. Evidently this is fine for normal everyday use and most off-road use, but not ok in certain configurations and/or conditions. In those later cases, limit straps are recommended.

 

In the current context I am researching how to fit 35” tires; lift or no lift. Local opinion is that I need aftermarket UCAs to fit the 35’s. My thinking is that if I am going the UCA route I might as well also go the extended travel / mid travel route to get my money’s worth out of the $1000 UCAs rather than my first plan to go with a OME 2” kit.

That said, I’m not trying to build a dune buggy to hit whoops at 50 mph. I’ll use a dirt bike or Razr for that. Besides, there is no desert anywhere near where I live. I want a truck I can drive over shit at slow speed; albeit I do like to drive fast and aggressive at times.

 

There are plenty of set ups that droop out and a coil spring becomes completely unloaded but it's still not the limiter because it just floats between the 2 seats, but then this is getting into a whole other realm. Like I said the coil spring can never be the droop limiter unless it's short and mechanically attached to the seats and every other suspension component has more articulation and movement than them. Coil springs can be the bump limiter though in coil bind set ups (NASCAR). Nope I didn't misread his post # 2 specifically says coil springs at the very end.

My advice is learn about suspension systems first and have an understanding for everything about them like ICs, roll center, alignments, etc. Once you figure that out start adding more complication. I think you may be reading into and thinking too much about this it's pretty simple basic set up no need to get crazy with it. KISS

In our trucks the first limiter is always the UCA either due to the UCA not having enough clearance around the spring and hitting or the balljoint reaching its stop. Then comes either the Shock/strut or lower ball joint depending on set up, then the CVs.

 

Either what he suggested with the SPCs or what I did with the JBA std duty are 2 great "cheaper" options. Also check on the sale threads and stuff sometimes some pop up for good deals that need the uniball replaced or something like that.

 

Thanks. I am 4" BS so as I am planning 315 I have been monitoring this thread and freaked out for a sec when I saw you switched

 

I do not think we are understanding each other. I think you are talking about the limiter under non-ideal circumstances (e.g. when the suspension is not configured and/or adjusted correctly). What I am talking about is the limiter under _ideal_ circumstances. For example, what limits the droop of the stock suspension? Based on what I have read and my own educated guess, the Toyota engineers did not design the limiter to be the UCA contacting the coil spring, the UCA ball joint reaching the end of its range of motion, or the LCA reaching the end of its range of motion. AFAIK, the only things that could be ideally limiting droop are the coil spring and the shock absorber. The article I linked suggests that it is not ideal for the shock absorber to be the limiter. That leaves me with the coil spring, however that doesn't make much sense to me because I think that under normal circumstances there is compression in the coil spring at full droop (i.e. preload).

Do you understand me?

 

Money isn't a limiter for me (within reason), but I don't want to buy stuff I don't need either. I'm a software engineer and am used to weighing trade offs. Given that I need an aftermarket UCA to fit 35's (lift or no lift), my quandary is that if I combine a OME 2" lift with a aftermarket UCA I might be not getting the full benefits (i.e. +1" of travel/droop) of the aftermarket UCA because the OME coilovers are not extended travel.

 

I'm completely understanding you. The stock suspension is limited in droop by the shock/strut. There is an internal bump just like in most aftermarket set ups that keep from damaging the shock at full droop acting like a limit strap. In no way shape or form would a spring be a limiting factor unlesss the scenario I described is in play. If the suspension fully droops where the spring isn't compressed anymore it just flops around that's it nothing more everything else can move around. My buddies XJ and a lot of jeeps do this.

 

Ya you will see LC's do this where the body comes completely off of the coil and there is just this large airgap between the top of the coil and body.

 

I saw a Ronny Dahl video with a Nissan Patrol that was doing that. Clank, clank, clank...

 

Quoting myself... Wow are extended travel coil-overs expensive! A fox 2.5 extended length coil-over costs $1400 vs $700 for a OME nitrocharger (albeit it's unclear if both prices are for 1 or 2 coil-overs). It doesn't seem worth it to me now.

 

It's for a pair. I'm running Bilstein 6112s up front for a little more than the $700 OMEs and they are a good in between

 

An extended coilover is really no different than their non-extended counterparts other than removing an internal washer that gives an extra .5" of travel. They will both cost the same. However you will see price differences between shocks and coilovers for several reasons.

The nitrocharger is a 1.5" strut/shock that is non-rebuildable. The Fox 2.5 is significantly larger uses more robust parts, seals, shims etc, rebuildable, tunable, and likely offers remote reservoirs.

These are apples to oranges.

 

Fair enough, but it is a big jump in price point to get an extra inch of travel. I realize they also have other benefits. It’s interesting there isn’t a cheaper extended travel shock. Perhaps it is because the advantages of +1” travel are outweighed by the other advantages of the 2.5 king/fox/icon shock.

 

The other benefits outweigh the extra travel. Tuning the shock is the biggest advantage IMO because it allows you to really dial in your suspension for what you want it to feel like/preform