Truck difficult to control

what upper control arms are you using and are you lifted? you might need an alignment.

 

I had an aftermarket suspension and E Load tires; it didn't change.

 

Yeah, my issue started on all stock. I have since tried airbags (now uninstalled) and running now with 5100s 2nd notch and a 3-pack AAL. Still stock tires. Issue still there.

 

I switched out to the 4Runner TRD Pro wheels that stick out a little farther and while the steering is a little improved, the issue is still present.

 

I got mine aligned for the second time at the dealer, still about the same.

Maybe some one can recommend a good alignment shop in southern California that know these trucks.

Thanks to all of those who are trying to help us isolate some these shortcomings .

I do like this truck but may have to part with it and take advantage of some of those 0% interest deals that are currently prevalent.

splitbolt, can I ask how much positive camber is too much for these trucks and what would be the on road characteristics of too much positive caster and hi way speeds, between 70-80 mph

 

I have a 2017 2WD Sport with 3" OME lift in the front, with Light Racing Upper Control Arms, and 2" blocks in the rear.
Wheels are 20x9 +1mm wheels with 305/50R20 Michelin LTX tires.
It now has 37K miles on it, and had a severe case of tramlining, until today.

When driving at highway speeds, my truck has always been stable and tracks well.

However, at 30 - 45 mph driving around town, it required two hands on the wheel to keep it out of the adjacent lanes.
imperfections and minor ruts in the lane sent it darting to the left and darting to the right without warning.

I've read several threads here on TacomaWorld about alignment, and the need for more Caster than normal Toyota specs due to my lift.
My Alignment specs are as follows:

Caster: +3.33 degrees Left / +3.25 degrees Right
Camber: +.31 degrees Left / +.26 degrees Right
Tow: +.02 degrees Left / +.01 degrees Right

This was my third alignment and none of them fixed my "two hands on the wheel required" issue.
Until last week, I didn't know what to call it.

Many thanks to Splitbolt, as I had never heard of "scrub" nor "tramlining" until I read his posts in this thread.
Those posts got me thinking, because I am running aftermarket wheels that have increased my scrub.

As an experiment, I turned each of my steering control rods in one half turn, to increase positive tow. This was based on the theory that more positive tow is needed to offset increased scrub.
It seemed to help a little, but not enough, so I tried another half turn on each side. The net effect was reduced darting to the left and right, but bumps in the road that only one tire would hit would cause the wheel to jerk a little bit in one direction.
It was better in some ways, but I knew it wasn't the solution I was looking for. It didn't feel right.

So I did some Googling on "tramlining" and I found many threads talking about how tires are the #1 cause for tramlining. Some threads even mention the Michelin LTX tires as being problematic.
It has been a while since I've had my tires rotated, so I had them rotated and balanced yesterday at my local tire shop.

I also found this very interesting thread in the F150forum: https://www.f150forum.com/f118/tramlining-451042/

The OP purchased a brand new F150 and it was darting left and right while he was driving it around town. He took it to the dealer, and the only thing they did was recalibrate his IVD, and that solved his problem.
Hmmm... what is IVD ?? Integrated Vehicle Dynamics.
Does a Tacoma have IVD ?? yes -- it is called VSC -- Vehicle Stability Control.

So... I search on our forum and find an interesting thread on how to reset / recalibrate the VSC of our Tacomas: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/vehicle-stability-control-system-warning.545186/

In addition to rotating my wheels and tires, I recalibrated my VSC.
My truck was now *MUCH* better, but I hadn't undone my increase positive tow changes yet, so it wasn't driving quite right.

Last thing I did yesterday was return my tow to where it was, backing off by a complete rotation on each steering rod, so that it should now be at the +.02 degrees Left / +.01 degrees Right position.
Then, I recalibrated my VSC again.

Today is the first day in a long time that I drove the whole way to work and home again with one hand lightly on the wheel, no darting left and right, MUCH MUCH IMPROVED.
It still tramlines, but it no longer darts. With 305 tires on a tacoma, I think the tires are going to find the grooves in the highway and cause some shifting around as you drive.
HOWEVER, the fear of leaving my lane is gone. It tracks straight and true now.

The question is, was it the tire rotation or the VSC reset? My money is on the VSC reset, but I can't be sure.

I believe that the VSC feature can cause slight application of the brakes to one wheel or the other to "assist" with a turn that the system senses you are attempting to make.
If this is true, and the system isn't properly calibrated based on your alignment, it may be assisting at times when it needs to do nothing, causing the "darty" behavior that I was experiencing.

My advice -- after every alignment, Reset the VSC.

--AGLAT

 

Interesting... Imma go try this right now.

 

I believe I did the reset correctly and took the truck for a quick spin. It feels different, but nothing obvious enough to say it's related to my issue. I'll keep tinkering when I have more time.

 

That recalibrates the yaw/acceleration sensor(airbag)...

Did you get above 22 mph for more than 5 seconds? This sets the zero point for the steering angle sensor(spiral cable) each time you turn the ignition on.

 

When the VSC is working you get the flashing light in the cluster - is there a silent mode - either way, you'd hear/feel the ABS pump working? the other major difference between the f150 and tacoma when it comes to this is that the f150 has electric power steering and has the ability to turn the steering wheel by itself and the new ones can keep you in the lane by itself too - that last feature shouldn't require calibration as it uses a camera to see lane markers. Tacoma can't steer by itself (or do the ones with lane departure warning have the ability to bring you back into the lane?)

 

They do not, it only beeps at you when you drift outside the lane. Pretty frustrating as every other model seems to have it but that’s Toyota.

 

I drove down the freeway a bit. But after watching the youtube video in the other thread, I was wondering if I needed to drive in a straight line immediately after doing the reset? I did the reset in my garage since it's level, but no way to drive straight after.

 

After the yaw rate and accelerometers are zeroed properly the truck determines when you are driving straight and will perform the calibration when it's proper. This happens every time the truck is started. You only get a code or problem from the steering angle sensor if the new zero it determines is far off from the previously stored zero. Hence, always do a full zero point reset after any alignment and no need to immediately drive straight. Just go drive.

 

When VSC intervenes it will flash the slip indicator light. Zero point calibrating is required after every alignment.

 

I've been following this for a while. Have you shook down the front end personally? What I mean is, jack the car off the ground, both tires, as even as possible so the suspension is unloaded, about 6" off the ground. Now, grab the tire at the 12 and 6 o clock and gently try to rock back and forth. Then, grab at the 9 and 3 o clock position and do the same. If you can, have someone else do the rocking and you, with flashlight if needed, watch all the steering components move or not move. If you haven't done this, I would and report back your findings. Otherwise, sell the truck. Lol. Kidding of course.
Zim

Edit #1. I would seek out a Firestone and find a alignment tech that has been to the school in Chicago, or another regional school. Most Firestone tech's are seasoned guys, and are very good at what they do. It's worth doing the research. The lifetime alignment is also worth the $175...(check that price) Sometimes you can get it for $159 or $20 cheaper. I've been to the school, and worked for the company. I'm retired now and it's been about 5 years so prices may have changed.
Z

 

Yes, definitely inspected the front end thoroughly. Everything appears to be in new condition down there. I'm at 18k miles now. Interesting suggestion with the firestone tech. I wonder how easy it would be to find one in my area...

 

Should be real easy. They will have 3 or 4 stores per major city. Make sure it is a Firestone Complete Auto Care Store. The others are just tire shops. I'd call all of them and talk to the service writer. Ask him if his tech has been to the Firestone School. He should be able to tell ya. This may not sit well with some folks around here. I have no allegiance to the company but worked there long enough to understand the mentality. In my opinion, they rank way up there on honesty. I know geometry. I'm a career draftsman. I've drawn for 2 of the big 3 car and truck manufactures. What these guys are doing to these little trucks is crazy, and way beyond what the truck was intended, and designed to do. This is why there are 3 or 4 of these threads every few weeks about this. You should be able to solve this with a good guy. Hope you find him, and when you do, slip him a twenty for his trouble and expertise.
Zim

Try this
877.516.6291
Store #321277
390 Green Valley Rd
El Dorado Hills, CA 95762-3937
s store.

 

I just had a thread about my local Firestone techs, forgot to do the zero point recalibrating so i had the abs/vsc lights on the dash and the tech told my fiance (who took it in while i was at work) that the lights would “go away after a few hours” lol but id agree the lifetime alignment deal is worth it. I got the $20 off and it cost me $180.

 

I have a 19' Pro and believe the lack of front spoiler adds to the light front end feel that these trucks have, especially in a headwind situation. From my perspective these trucks need to be dialed in from a suspension, wheel/tire combination much like you and @splitbolt have been eluding to throughout this entire thread. Someone should create a logic tree which takes suspension dynamics/components, alignment, aerodynamics, wheel/tire combinations, as well as handling feedback into account which could possibly help people identify the proper steps and path(s) to take forward in order to make their vehicles handle better across varying driving conditions. I've noticed that alot of these trucks end up wrecked which may partially be attributed to their twitchy handling dynamics when they aren't dialed in. A simple logic tree might actually save lives and improve the driving experience for a not so small contingent of taco lovers. Many thanks to you and @splitbolt for taking the time to educate the rest of us. You probably saved some lives in doing so.

 

There was a road around that mare my truck do the same thing. They paved the road. Trick doesn't dart anymore. I know what you're experencing. These don't like ruts at 65 mph i guess. Also i noticed a difference from summer to winter as i run different tires in winter then summer. The softer the tire themore noticeable it was. Thank God they paved that road though.