That >8,000 lb. winch is a waste of money.

That's pretty cool, and really well explained. I especially liked how when the second vehicle was doing the winching and they still used an anchor, and it demonstrated how much load that other anchor took.

 

someone redesigned a 2 pulley tackle block.

 

You should probably stay away from all of that. If you read the comments written by the mechanical engineers and other experts earlier in the thread, you will see that it won’t work because you will need to weld a bunch of extra pull points to your truck, and also you will need a bunch of extra trees to set up your mechanical advantage, which takes about a week to do, assuming you don’t have to plant the trees and wait for them to grow, but even then it will won’t work because a pulley is not 100% efficient, and also your winch line might get a little dirty.

 

Here’s the thread. Truly awesome that several TW members came together to help out a fellow TW brother in need. Especially @whatstcp who drove a couple hours to help out someone he’d never met.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/stuck-in-ocotillo.643988/

 

It’s almost as if coming in with actual facts and representation elicits a better response than firing off bold accusations with nothing to back them up. Weird.

 

My pack weighed so much! Such is the way of the common core school generation. Now ALL the kids can have the bad knees and back of an infantry marine.

 

Thank you! I love those threads

 

I don't get why people hate common core so much. But that's a topic for a different thread.

Edit: Should add that I never learned common core math. But I'm pretty good at math, looked at it once and immediately understood what they are trying to accomplish. It's how you do math in your head. Nearly all (decent) cashiers use the count up method (common core) of subtraction to get your change.

 

For sure. Prob because of the (non-standardized) way it's taught by teachers not because of the method itself. I was just using CC as a time period designator since we didn't learn it that way and I'm a 90s kid.

 

I think it’s because most people don’t understand math. They only know one routine of solving a problem, but don’t really know what they are actually doing. An analogy would be someone following a recipe vs a chief that understands the require fat and sugar content require to make the meal taste great. I think math was always taught to us in a boring structured way. I’m glad they changed it.

Carry on. Let’s talk more about complicated winch setups.

 

Have you watched some of the videos posted earlier? I watched the 1 and 2 block videos, and they're really well done.

 

I think people don't like it because they are trying to teach it from the start. I think you need to have an understanding of the tried and true methods and then CC makes more sense as a short cut to get the same result.

 

I disagree. The tried and true method is a short cut to actually understanding/teaching math. You don't need to know much of anything to follow the procedure. You need to know number relationships to carry out CC. I think we shortcut the fundamentals by teaching the old school way. This isn't much of an obvious problem in elementary school, but eventually you develop kids that don't know shit about math except a few boring procedures. Even CC isn't perfect. I think we are still teaching math in a way that is boring and regimented. For a subject that literally described everything in the universe, we sure have a way of making it seem pointless and useless. But I'm not a teacher so I don't really have suggestions for improving.

 

I was never taught CC and I don't have kids that are being taught that way so I don't have any first hand experience with it. I do know that I figured out on my own that it was easier to break numbers down into smaller problems to make it easier to solve larger problems in my head.

I did watch a video on the count up method after reading your post. I haven't heard it called that. The problem they were solving was 431-394. They broke it down to say you had to add 6+10+10+10+1. That seems harder than saying you need to add 6+31.

 

It's not perfect. Either way you didn't use use long subtraction to figure it out cause that's not really how we think about subtracting numbers in our heads. That's what they are trying to reinforce. Sure they might unnecessarily break the numbers down too far. But they are trying to teach that numbers are just built from other numbers (factors is a concept that is important in alegbra and calculus and used to not even be talked about until middle school).

 

Yeah, I understand what they are trying to do. From the complaints I've heard about CC this seems to be one of them, that they break it down to far and make it more complicated.

 

As a newb this video was interesting to watch...

... it seems really really really slooooooow... to move a vehicle only .02m (7.87") ... if a Tacoma is 18ft long

Some basic math. 18ft x 12in. = 216in. then 216in. divided by 7.87" = 27.45 attempts. But without knowing how far the initial .02m takes to move the object (a truck) its impossible to solve the problem.


Additionally, I looked up winches and found this Rough Country 9500lbs winch: https://s3.amazonaws.com/roughcountry/install/pro-winch.pdf per the bottom of the 7th page it says the 9500lb (4300kg) winch has a line pull speed of 5.2ft per 1.6 minutes.

Thus some more basic math 5.2ft x 12in = 62.4" then 216in. divided by 62.4' = 3.46 attempts. Then if I multiple 1.6 minutes times 3.46 attempts = 5.5 minutes to pull the stuck truck out.


Now... lets get away from the math and look at a "real world situation"... How about this one?

hoarder23 get his Gen 1, Access Cab stuck in a muddy situation: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/stuck-in-ocotillo.643988/ roughly 3/4 of the truck is in the mud.
desertjunkie760 goes to rescue hoarder23 and gets his DCSB stuck even worse in the mud: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/stuck-in-ocotillo.643988/page-3


My total newb question is... for everyone here, but really for the guys who posted the Mechanical Advantage (MA) information... As I'm seriously interested in hearing them out.


Do you @TomHGZ [OP] and @VE7OSR believe there is still a mechanical advantage to using ropes and pulleys versus using a 9500lb winch to pull a vehicle out of a situation like the above real world example?


I do honestly, and greatly appreciate everyone's advice, opinions and experiences. As that information will assist in my learning, education and growth as a Tacoma off-road driver.

cheers
Aaron

 

First your math is using a lot of numbers that were misinterpreted, the 0.2 number in the video is how far the vehicle will move for every 1 unit of rope you pull in, the narrator used meters cause he’s Australian, I’ll use feet cause merika.

I have 100’ of line on my winch so if I spooled out all of it and reeled it back in using a 5:1 MA setup my vehicle would be pulled towards the anchor 20’.

The time that takes would depend on the line speed and duty cycle of the winch. The winch you referenced doesn’t list the duty cycle which is how long you can run it with a load on it before it has to cool down. The 5.2 is ft per minute, the 1.6 is meters per minute. That is measuring how quickly line gets pulled in, not how far the vehicle moves. To move my truck 18’ (1 vehicle length) I would need to reel in 90’ of line which at 5.2’ a minute would take 17 minutes 20 seconds. You may be able to do it in one pull as you would be subjecting the winch to 1/5 the load as 4/5 would be on the static side. Using a 1:1 straight pull would take 3 mins 30 secs.





I also don’t feel like you have a firm grasp on what happened in my recovery thread, my black 2nd gen was buried to the frame in mud. The picture of the 1st gen was another fellow dummy that had gotten stuck way worse around the same time and was there to provide sympathy. If my truck was buried 3/4 in mud, which would be somewhere around the middle of the windshield I probably would be dead right now and be one my way to getting unearthed but a future archeologist. My truck was the only one in the mud that night, @desertjunkie760 cut a tire on the way back to my truck and that what that picture is.

As to the actual recovery, the major problem was the lack of anchor points and a loose narrow dirt hill between my truck and the winching truck. I first tried a straight pull with my 8k winch with little effect against the 24” of mud my truck was snow plowing. I used a snatch block and the 2:1 MA got me about a foot forward before the angle got too much and the truck stopped moving forward and there was too much suction to pull it sideways. A 5:1 setup would have been great, if there was a solid anchor, which there wasn’t.

I was in what the Army refers to as Fender depth mire (above the hub, below the hood), which roughly doubles the vehicle weight so my 6500lb truck now has 13000lbs of resistance.

Based on your post, it would be in your best interest to meet up with more experienced people in your area before you attempt to go off-roading. You are buying parts that will help you get into trouble without a great way to get back out of trouble. Your local thread isn’t very active but some seem to be trying to make things happen. https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/edmonton-and-area-toyotas.282657/ If you can’t find willing participants I’ve found most Jeep groups are more than happy to let another 4x4 tag along off-road and the groups tend to be reasonably active.

 

hey hoarder23 , thank you for taking the time to write these two detailed explanations. Let's start with the above. A) because I live in the "attic" aka Canada , we just happen to deal with both Metric & Imperial. And it just happens I've lived in all 3-countries mentioned: Australia, Canada and 'Merika. Doesn't explain or help my math mechanical maths.. Thus, I do appreciate your spelling that portion out.