3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

So what's the consensus best upgrade bulb for a H11 Halogen setup?

I googled GE 130+ H11 bulb with no luck on results for this brand.

 

This is probably best! Followed closely by the +130
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tungsram-H11-Nighthawk-Xenon-Halogen-Bulb-2-pack/313412664

 

I’ve been thinking, on the subject of melting snow, the radiator is right there. Has anyone ever seen a product which makes use of coolant to melt snow? Probably a really difficult engineering challenge to solve but it strikes me as less silly than burning gasoline to turn an alternator which produces current that then turns back into heat with resistors.

 

I've been putting a lot of research in to this lately.

For some background, I bought the Morimoto XB Gen 2's during the Black Friday sale on TRS while I was contemplating the other options detailed on this thread. I went with these because I am bias to Morimoto and believe in their product. Before my Tacoma, I daily'd a MK4 GTI for 6 years that came with a Morimoto retrofit already installed and loved the performance. The 20% off sale also made me think of the decision less. All in all, I do not regret it. Yes, I definitely have concern about the quality control looking down the road, but I bit the bullet, and so far (knock on wood) I have had no issues whatsoever. I agree, LED lights are very poor when it comes to snow buildup on the lens. I live in the Idaho panhandle, and it is most definitely a problem. I had it happen to me a few times already with the Gen 2's this winter with little effect, but we had a very mild winter and it worries me if the snow is extra sticky and road conditions are poor to where I could find myself in trouble. I know.. this makes my decision to buy these over Xenon and Halogen upgrades sound foolish. However, with snow buildup being the only downside on my list of tradeoffs, I figured I could implement a solution with my engineering experience if it proved to be a problem.

As for solutions already out there, there is a company that makes nichrome-embedded lenses that use resistive heat to melt snow. Sadly, they only make them for certain Jeep models and commercial vehicles. For us Tacoma owners, there aren't any "bolt-on" solutions in the market that I could find.

I briefly looked in to 3 different options for managing snow buildup on the headlights: heat through electricity, washer fluid, and heat from the engine. All of these options involve not modifying the assembly of the headlight in any way, shape, or form. I'll list the pros and cons I found of each below:

• Heat Through Electricity (Resistive)

1. • System Background
     • Heat the lights using ceramic heater cartridges or other resistive heating elements. This electric heat source would be implemented in to a custom aluminum block that would conduct the heat into the polycarbonate lens which would heat up gradually overtime until reaching the set temperature. My plan was to place the aluminum block on top of the headlights for a minimal effect on the overall aesthetics of the pickup. For the record, I test-benched this system with very poor results and decided to not pursue it further, but am documenting it so someone else does not make the same mistake.
   • Pros:
     • Affordable and easy to implement ($50 or less)
   • Cons:
     • Difficult to get the necessary amount of energy to heat the headlights - I conservatively calculated this to be 250W - most 12V ceramic heaters are only 40W and cannot heat large areas efficiently.
     • The headlight lens, polycarbonate, is regarded more as an insulator, not a conductor - it takes a lot of consistent incoming heat for the mass to reach its steady state temperature, making this method even more difficult

• Washer Fluid

1. • System Background
     • A windshield washer jet would sit on the underside of the headlights and spray deicer on to the headlights as commanded by the operator (very similar to the Euro systems)

1. • Pros:
     • Affordable and easy to implement ($50 or less)
   • Cons:
     • Would require cutting/drilling of body panels to implement the jets
     • Hard to control the coverage of the fluid
     • Not a convenient solution - a timer circuit would need to be implemented to tell the system when to spray, or the operator would need to tell the washer jets to turn on periodically whereas a heated system could be constantly on.
     • Deicer is known to affect the UV-protective coatings on headlights - I definitely do not want my $1000 headlights to yellow.

• Heat From Engine

1. • System Background
     • Plumb air in front of the headlights through vents cut in to the sides of the grill to blow hot air taken from a radiator that dissipates heat from the engine's coolant. Think of the headlight having a high-powered hairdryer always blowing on it. This is a similar, but non electrical method compared to the off-the-shelf nichrome headlight heaters. It is less the actual lens that is melting the snow, but more the snow making direct contact with the nichrome wire, melting it in its tracks.
   • Pros:
     • Pulls heat directly from the engine - minimal additional energy requirements - this heat is also very hot and very easy to get.
   • Cons:
     • Many custom parts and modifications will be required - a 3D printer would be my friend here.
     • By far the most expensive option (around $300). The easiest system to implement would be something similar to a heater core used for warming up the cabs of UTVs because it already has proven results and the system has the manifold and fans built in to it.
     • Would require cutting/drilling of body panels to implement the vents

As of right now, I am leaning heavily towards pulling heat from the engine's coolant, but the price is what holds me back. I don't like to put too much money in to my engineering projects because I have other priorities, but if its the best option, I will probably pull the trigger - plus it is just a fun project. I will be interested to see other solutions that companies develop in order to solve this issue. I can see why it is not as simple as pulling the heat off the LED sinks and routing it to the lens - there just isn't enough heat from the LEDs.

Overall, I hope this information was helpful and not a mouthful. I will continue to document my solution as I have more time to work on it. I would be pleased to answer or clarify anything regarding this post or work towards a new solution I have not yet considered. It does seem a little backwards to buy $1000 headlights only to spend another $300 on a solution to heat the lens, but keep in mind my product requirements may be different than others, and ultimately that is what is driving a lot of my decisions through this process.

 

Pulling hot air off the led heat sinks was actually my first thought after reading @daveeasa's post. Especially for those of us with hikaris.

 

Another solution could be to heat up the inside of the headlight assembly which could have a similar effect as heating up the pickup’s cab. However, this went against my product requirements of not modifying the headlight assembly in any way, shape or form. It sounds promising though if it does not cause fogging issues.

 

these big blocky breather vents seem ideal for this kind of solution if an engineer were so inclined...

 

Love it. I actually didn’t know these were vents until Crash’s review. I never looked at the headlights that closely. Yeah, this could totally have potential for the Morimotos. Part of the reason why I was hoping to not make a headlight-specific mod was because I wanted the information universal for the TC community whether they had OEM LED headlights, Hikari’s etc. But you bring up a good point on this.. tempting..

 

i would think with a 3d printer, you could even implement a solution without any "permanent" modification. but idk, would be interesting to try out!

 

Perhaps I could source a smaller radiator & fan that can tee off the coolant lines to supply some heat to those areas. I’m sure there’s gotta be something out there considering the portable coolers people use for overlanding. A peltier chip could be a possible electrical-driven solution as well, but their overall efficiency concerns me. Nevertheless, I really appreciate the recommendations! It got some gears turning for sure.

EDIT: Another thing is since those vents are likely used for condensation control as well as dissipating heat from the LED heat sinks, I wonder how blowing hot air in there would affect the LEDs. Guess there is only one way to find out lol.

 

Perhaps just a metal rod which inserts into the radiator via T to a hose then feeds a metal version of the headlight trim panel to radiate heat? Perhaps this is insufficient heat to do any melting? Or perhaps too much heat and would damage the lenses? Or maybe a safety concern after a long drive if someone touches it?

 

I completely forgot about the Headlight trim panel, that would be the perfect spot for an electric solution like stick on handlebar heaters or mirror defrosters if someone can dial in the correct temperature.

 

I like where your head is at. It is cool seeing everyone pitch in their 2 cents on this. Based on my findings with my initial electric heating solution with the aluminum, I'm not very confident it will be enough to heat up the polycarbonate. PC has a similar thermal conductivity to silicone, which is used for oven mits. I thought I would maybe have a chance to heat it up, but it wasn't even close. The heat on the aluminum is lost through convection before it even puts an ounce of warmth into the lens. In addition, the Morimotos don't even have the headlight trim panel so I'm SOL on that option lol.

I went down this complete rabbit hole on why manufacturers appear to not be solving this problem only to realize it is likely much more complex that it sounds. I do recall Crash talking about some Rigid LED tech though where different layers of film on top of the LED lens absorb radiation and conduct it throughout the film. That is a neat idea. Also, for those who sled or dirt bike, 509 makes some very cool electrically heated goggles that uses a transparent film. It's the same technology they use on airplanes to keep the windows from frosting over at high altitudes. I really wanted to find some over-the-counter stuff like this and just paste it on the front of the lights like Lamin-X. It would be so clean, but it's not easy to source and rather expensive from what I could find in the states. Maybe someone else would have a lead on this???

 

LOL you guys. If you are really concerned about headlight performance in freezing weather the solution is to stick to halogens and run the H9 swap. It is far simpler and effective vs trying to mod some $1300+ LED headlights to not freeze.

But, if you really wanted to go LED and still prevent freezing, look up 'transparent heating film'. This is the same concept used in factory heated LEDs headlights. Using coolant from the radiator or attempting a conductive heating solution on a highly insulating polycarbonate plastic lens is a non-starter, it will not be effective. If you really wanted to build your own headed headlights, I'd attach the transparent heating film on the inside of the lens assembly, which would require baking and taking them appart. You'd then still need to work out how to activate it. My JW J3 headlight lens heaters automatically turn on at 40 degrees.

Note that lens heaters while transparent still loose some light output, so depending on the specs it could be 10% or more which really starts to bring down the LED advantage. In the case of H9s vs OEM LED, you have 1294 H9 lux vs 1636 LED lux. Taking 10% off the LED for the heaters puts it at 1472 lux, or only 13% brighter than the halogens at a huge expense and complicated custom system, and losses could be higher still depending on the heating film used. If you really need the heat, I'd stick with the H9 swap.

 

All good points for those contemplating this. As I said before, I liked everything about the Morimotos except the inability to melt the snow. As far as trade offs go, it was the best choice IMO. Some may disagree, but I’m just working on potential solutions in my free time at the moment and I’m sure some will run in to the same toss up as me!

 

Can you be more specific? The v2 lights use all 3 projectors for the low beam, and their cut offs planes are all aligned to the same level.

 

@crashnburn80

Great work as always! The cutoff line and lack of up light is an interesting one. My wife’s old CX-5 had halogen projectors with a similarly sharp cutoff line and no up light. A friend lives in the middle of nowhere with lots of hilly roads on the way to his house with lots of deer. Driving through there at night with those cutoffs as terrifying. I wonder what the tale of the tape would say on that, long term.

Also, I saw this the other day and thought of you. If 4000k is good more K is better!

The thing that’s throwing me is it’s a newer Corolla with LED lamps. I’m assuming those are the fogs but I wasn’t in front of it.

 

(Runs out to check his truck’s settings)

 

Not sure where it’s at but there’s a dude on here who hooked up a badass custom headlight washer for his truck. Might be good for you and I living in Utah and Idaho with our crazy storms we get in winter. As for me, I’ve gotta run h9 because we get so much snow where we live.

ps ss3 pro ftw in snow

 

jk here is the link https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/retrofit-headlight-washer-jet-on-tacoma.608877/