ECGS Bushing Questions (Friction?)

I'm thinking about preemptively replacing my needle bearing w/ the bushing. I'm replacing the CV axle, so wouldn't be much extra work.

My truck has about 110k miles. Has been lifted for 80k. I bought it used a couple years ago, at 90k. (So, I don't know if it was quieter in the past). I don't have any vibes or noises that go away in 4wd. In general, the truck isn't smooth (compared to the cars I'm used to driving). But, if you can tell from my little forum pic, it's heavy, I have highly inflated KO/2 tires to support the weight. There are plenty of opportunities for vibrations from a lot of places.

A concern I've got, which I haven't seen many others talk about, is friction. I'm trying to get the best possible MPG, as I drive this thing across the country.. And drive it for 16 hour days at 70mph, all day, as I'm getting to my destination. I saw one post here of a bushing which the person removed due to vibrations or noise.. And it was all blackened and burned up. And I saw a post on another forum about someone's CV feeling almost too hot to touch, after long drives, w/ the bushing installed.. While the passenger CV was cool. Those both seem to be rare cases, as there aren't many complaints about the bushing..

I've seen people say switching to the heavier non-synthetic gear oil ECGS recommends, caused a slight drop in MPG.. But I think they switched to it in both the front and rear. I'd probably just continue using the factory spec oil.. seems plenty of people do.

What do others think? Anyone else doing long drives w/ the bushing? Anyone else notice heat or any other issues? Change in MPG or anything?
If I definitely had the typical symptoms, I'd do it w/out question. But since I don't really know if I need it.. Probably don't, since there's no change to the many different subtle vibrations in 4wd, I'm not sure if it's worth trying.

Thanks for any advice.

 

The bushing is longer and it might be very very slightly smaller in diameter. My CV slipped right into the bushing no problem. I used the heavier oil, I didn’t notice any drop in mpg. I noticed it puked the fluid out the breather. If I were to do it again. I would NOT use the heavier oil. I would use

$28 75w-90 Synthetic Gear Lube - 1 Quart (Pack of 2)

75w-90.

My truck is stock. I put the bushing in at 130k.

 

I put the bushing in at ~20k miles ago. Biggest MPG killer was larger tires. Second biggest MPG killer is my heavy foot. There should be no metal to metal friction at the bushing because when it’s moving it rides on a film of oil. For self study: Google something like “how does automotive lubricants work.”

 

rnish, did you use the lucas 85w140 oil?

I get about 10 MPG at best. But... I've got a brick wall behind me, as far as aerodynamics are concerned. And the lift, and the heavy tires, and re-geared, and the weight of my tiny house, heh..

 

I did my ‘13 at 21k, was making a little noise with cruddy 1.75 lift, havent had any issues at all or mpg drop. Im using the Lucas 85w140 in NJ. Approaching 51k now, no issues.

i did the wifes 4R during the 100k service just for peace of mind. The truck felt like brand new, smooth as butter. Then I sold it a few weeks later to a guy at work

there’s a thread on here somewhere where a member documents all of his maintenance for several hundred thousand miles. He had quite a bit of miles on the ECGS bushing, I wanna say more than a 100k, with no issues.

 

‘Yes using Lucas 85w -140. My best suggestion is drive 55.

 

@wicked1

here is the thread. Dude has over 100k on his bushing.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/400-000-miles.404359/

 

But the west is SOOOOO big! Speed limit is 80 through a lot of it. It's kind of not safe to go that slow.

But, I do understand. It takes twice as much power to drive 80, as it does to drive 60. For a brick wall like my truck.

About the oil, I can see how it would be better for the bushing.. Non synthetic is apparently stickier, in general.. Plus it's a heavier weight which I guess offers a thicker film. Something about it, though, makes me nervous. Everything is synthetic and light weight oil now, and that's all it's ever had in it..

 

Conventional oils are not "stickier". The primary differences between synthetic and conventional oils are that synthetic oils typically have better film strength, are more stable over a wider temperature range, and stand up to shearing, contamination, heat (i.e. wear and fluid breakdown) better than conventional. In short, quality conventional and synthetic oils do the same jobs, but synthetic oils are more stable and last longer.

A heavier weight oil will help to increase film thickness but will also increase fluid friction--its a trade off depending on the application.

 

I got that 'stickier' comment from ECGS's site.. specifically that it has better 'clingling' power to the metal.. But whatever.. That's actually part of the point of me not completely trusting the heavier oil recommendation. I'm not sure if it's a completely engineered recommendation. or maybe they just like that brands products..
I want a film good enough to work w/ the bushing.. But I also want low friction, and trust Toyota's fluids are well designed for this truck.
I guess I need to do some searching about people running factory gear oil w/ the bushing.

 

I can understand the thought behind the heavier weight oil recommendation because the rolling element bearing is being replaced by a plain/journal bearing that operates at relatively low speed. Low speed = less film thickness, so increasing oil viscosity will help improve film thickness.

That being said, I don't know the idea behind their recommendation of conventional oil over synthetic oil. I'm not aware of a significant difference of the adhesion forces (the "stickiness") on metal for conventional vs. synthetic, but maybe they have a reason for it

 

There are plenty of guys using factory

$28 75w-90 Synthetic Gear Lube - 1 Quart (Pack of 2)

75w-90 weight oil with the bushing. A lot of them didn’t even know the thicker oil is recommended. Unless you do your research (like you did) there is no mention of oil type when you get the bushing in the mail.

I used thicker oil. Because I did what was recommended. I did have one issue, and actually posted about on this forum. Which is where a lot of guys said, they used 75w-90 and none said they had any issues.

 

All the analysis and back and forth and you’ll get rid of the truck before the bushing is actually worn out.

 

I went from whatever factory was to 75 90 synthetic awhile back and just installed the bushing. What was your issue? Ive never liked going back and forth between synthetic and conventional but im about due for a change

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/front-diff-leaking-gear-oil-from-the-breather.744067/

 

ECGS told me to use the thicker oil for up in the northeast. I have about 30k on my bushing. no MPG loss.
I did have the oil puke out of axle seal on the driver side, but I found out that my breaker was stuck shut. After I replaced it, its been fine.

 

I ordered 75w-110 synthetic.. Hopefully that's a good compromise. Amsoil, so it should be a good product.
Still haven't completely decided to install the bushing.. But I've got it, and everything else needed to do the job.

Anyone driving looooong days like I am w/ the bushing? 16 hours on the road?

 

In reality once the diff gets up to temp 1 hour or 16 shouldn't make a difference. If it seals it seals. I've driven all day with no issues. Use the oil ECGS recommends.

 

Sharing my experience thus far as another data point.

Installed the ECGS bushing back in December. Since I was pulling everything for the 4Runner BBK upgrade it was easy to pull the axle at the time. Install was pretty easy and painless. I didn't have any problems with the OE needle bearing beforehand, swapped simply for preventative and because I planned to lift which I have now done months later. OE bearing was completely silent at stock ride height, ECGS bushing has always given me a harmonic noise around 40mph only but otherwise quiet.

MPGs: I track every tank of fuel in a spreadsheet. My data suggests there is zero difference between the ECGS bushing and the OE needle bearing in regards to MPGs. Apparently I'm one of the few people on this forum that can still get 20-21 mpg at times. Worrying about the bushing causing a drop in MPG is like worrying about opening your refrigerator causing the next global ice age. The biggest single factors I have found that hurt MPG are cold weather (below like 40°F), driving over 70mph on the highway, not using cruise control, and driving style (aggressive vs. grandpa style).

Oil: I use Amsoil 75w90 in both diffs and t-case. I test my fluids via Blackstone. You should have zero problems using 75w90 as specified in the manual. You probably won't have an issue using 85w140 like ECGS reccomends but there is another thread out there debunking the "science" behind why ECGS gives that suggestion. Suffice it to say you are probably fine running either one. Front diff uses less than 2 quarts so use good quality oil and don't overthink this. It's Monday, I don't want to dive down the "which oil is best" rabbit hole today.

I'm baffled about the CV axle heating up thing. I get the theory but how did anyone discover that? If it was leaking grease, okay I get it. Otherwise were they hitting it with an infrared temp gun when they stopped for gas, or reaching in and grabbing the CV saying "yep it's hot!" when they stop? Weird. I might just check it for fun now because it seems crazy. Would be interesting for someone in a stock truck to gather the same temp data for comparision.

 

100 degree days, jump right off the highway and diff is warm but not hot to the touch.