Poll, 30-10 MPH Vibration, Automatic Trucks, Stock Height

I changed it so the numbers are visible without voting.

 

An update on mine. Spicer makes the drivelines for these trucks an interestingly, Toyota's specs listed in the TSB are way outside of what Spicer says they should be. It's no wonder these things vibrate. Another user in the thread linked below really dug into this and highlighted the parts of the manual that are useful. Spicer also has a calculator on their website. Note that shims and diff drops can only do so much. Per the Spicer manual, the t-case to front shaft operating angle is out of spec. The only way to change that angle is to lower the t-case. I have no idea how Toyota has allowed these things to be build so far out of spec. There's only so much you can adjust without modifying your t-case mount.

I really wanted the dealer to fix this so there'd be no warranty concerns so I held off doing it myself for a long time. My dealer is also not close to me so it's very inconvenient to go back and forth with them. After no luck with them, I set out to do what I could. If I was unable to fix it, I was fairly set that I was going to off the truck and get a GX460 or something. I bought a digital angle gauge and measured things as best as I could. My measurements showed that the best I could do, without modifying my t-case mount, was to install a 1/2 degree axle shim. I also determined this by measuring the pinion angle change when I had about 250 lbs in the bed, which was about 0.25-0.5 degrees. With 250 lbs, most of my vibes went away. I got shims from SPC as they were the only 1/2 degree ones I could find. I can post my measurements if anyone is interested. Took about 2 hours of my time to install. It'd take 30 minutes max if I did it again.

After install, I'd say most of the issue is now resolved. My vibes were never severe. They were minor from 30-10 while braking or at constant speed as well as right at 50 MPH when at constant speed. They were always worse with less gas in the tank and just the driver. They got better with weight, more gas, passengers, etc. The 30-10 vibe is essentially gone, maybe the tiniest bit left but even I am having a tough time detecting it and I'm pretty damn picky and looking for it. No normal or sane person would feel it. The 50 MPH vibe is also mostly gone, maybe 75% reduced. I need to drive it some more to be sure but at this point, I think it's plenty good to live with. I still plan on putting some weight in the bed again just to see how it responds. I'll do that this week.

My question now is what to do with my shocks. I got some 5100s a few months ago but didn't install them yet. Wanted to resolve one issue at a time and not compound things. It's tough to troubleshoot when you make multiple changes at once. At most, I'll put them on with the fronts set a 0.65" and keep the rear stock height. I don't want to mess up the improvements I've made in the rear. I'll probably do the ECGS while I'm there. A small part of me really doesn't want to mess anything up though. If I wanted to keep it stock height, I'd probably get some 4600s, not the TRD OR ones which are not actually 4600s like people think they are. Good luck all! What a pain this issue is.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/21-tacoma-still-vibrates-after-tsb.740185/page-3

 

Good to know. I finally have the TSB being done now. 1st dealer blew me off every which way they could so I tired a second dealer and they felt it. Not expecting much but wanted it on record. On a side note, they have me in a 23' 4Runner and damn I want one! LOL

 

Stop by the showroom and take a look at the market adjustment on the sticker. That will keep you from wanting one

 

Who knows. The TSB fix includes a shim and that may or may not take some vibe away. No one here has confirmed what degree shim it is but it might be a 1 degree. Not sure why they do they springs too. Seems unnecessary when the problem is in the angles, not the springs.

 

I looked online and saw the base models start at 40k without dealer markups. No thank you!

 

And the 4Runner still has the needle bearing up front. I don’t think driveline vibes are a common issue though. You’re better off getting a used GX than a 4Runner. More power, none of these vibes, similar mpg and more.

I’m really curious if Toyota will finally fix these issues for the 4th gen Tacoma after a few decades. No excuse for this garbage.

 

I got a call from the dealer today. They followed what Toyota asked them to regarding measurements and the parts are ordered to complete the TSB. They confirmed that some of the measurements were off from what they were supposed to be but they did not elaborate. I might get the truck back on Friday so we will see.

 

I couldn't see the numbers without voting and i just voted

 

That's odd. I just checked and "Allow the results to be viewed without voting" is selected.

 

After a few more days driving with the 1/2 degree shims, I'd now say my vibes are 50-75% reduced from what they were but not 100% gone. It's certainly much better. I could live with it but since changing shims myself is easy, I'll do a little more testing. I plan on taking my current measurements, putting 250 lbs in the bed again and driving to see if it further reduces the vibes as well as take measurements. Depending on how that goes, I may try 1 degree shims from Ironman 4x4.

I'm also chatting with another user about the t-case drop, to truly get the angles within Spicer's recommendations, but that seems like an excessive measure to take and I'd be worried about implications that may have on other parts. This may seem like a pain but shims are easy and it's encouraging knowing things can be improved by making small adjustments back there. I'm certainly feeling better about the truck now.

 

My taco is trd off-road manual transmission and I have this problem , I'm ignoring it because there is nothing obvious as a fix

 

Drive shaft Carrier shims ??

 

No not the carrier bearing drop. You’d have to go up to the link I posted and you’ll read that the t-case to front driveshaft angle is way out of Spicer’s recommendations. The only way to adjust that angle is to lower the whole t-case and tranny. At that link, two users did it and got their trucks within Spicer’s tolerances and all vibes were then gone. I know, sounds crazy. Too big of a job for most people and sounds kinda risky. I won’t be doing that to mine yet. I’ll stick with shim adjustments since they’re easy and low risk.

 

My truck has the 30-10 vibration and have been wondering if there would be any long term affects from the vibrations over time ?

 

Not sure. No one can argue that vibrations are good for mechanical parts though.

 

Got my truck back from getting the TSB done and like most who had it done, it is much better but not 100% eliminated. There were times on the way home I didn't notice anything but when looking for it, I still felt a slight vibration. The truck has to go back in though because now the alignment is off and pulls to the right. I can see they put new leaf springs in but I am not sure if the truck is dog-walking. I need to have someone drive behind me to check.

 

I'm interested in what degree shims they install with the TSB. I've only heard they "might" be 1 degree but don't think anyone was certain about it. How much would you estimate the TSB reduced your vibes, 50%, 75%, more?

What's even more odd about this Tacoma vibe is the SR5 Trail Edition and TRD Pro have 1/2" rear lift and TRD (Bilstein) 2"/1" lift has 1" rear blocks and none of these specify larger shims, or any shims at all. I'm really curious how much those trucks vibrate. I may pay to have a good local driveline shop take a good look at mine, take careful measurements and make some recommendations.

Last night I spent a bit of time searching for driveline issues with the Ford Ranger and other mid-size trucks and it looks like this problem is not exclusive to Tacomas. That's not great news but at least we're not the only ones. I also spent some time reading about other driveline fixes. There's of course the 1-piece driveshaft as a potential fix, but the now the main builder of those Tom Woods, no longer makes them for the Tacoma because even theirs sometimes failed to fix vibrating trucks. I also ran across users who had their rear shaft modified to have a double cardan joint and claimed it cured all their vibes. I also looked at the 4th gen 4Runner and it appears to have a single piece driveshaft and no common rear vibrations but it does have the clamshell bearing up front so if lifting, the ECGS bushing would be recommended. Getting pretty damn tired of trying to figure this out, hence the looking at different vehicles. Just not sure I can "live with it". Sometimes it doesn't bug me and other days it does.

 

Based on the bulletin providing a tolerance I would think they give them various sized shims to pick from, but I don't know that to be true. Those installed in my stack are eyed at about 3mm on the thick end.

I have wondered about the Pro models myself because I don't read a lot of owners having issues with them, so I sense there's something different happening in their set up. I asked about that in one of my posts with no response. In all my reading I only recall one Pro owner saying they had the issue. That made me wonder about what was different, specifically if they had a different transfer case, engine mounts, or driveshaft, but I was unable to figure that out.

I also read a post by someone who I recall saying was a retired Toyota tech, and how he thought some of these issues were from the very flexible frames in these trucks. Through a lot of reading about this there have been some who have resolved the issue with replacing or repairing certain components or parts while others never get there. I think it's for that same reason that the one pice shaft isn't a guaranteed fix, and it makes me put more stock in the frame theory. Also too, one of the various reasons why Toyota refuses to repair it past a certain point. They know they can't fix enough of them so they call it normal. Besides loosing credibility, and customers, that fixes it for them.

Another thing on the driveline angles: My OEM shaft has a Spicer sticker on it, and the specs from Spicer don't directly overlap the TSB specs for the driveshaft angle. The TSB really only focuses on the pinion angle where Spicer speaks to all three angles and the two parallels. I think there's something to be said about the first angle from the TC thats contributing to the issue for some of the vehicles having issues. This thread has information on how @Dual Port modified his mount to solve his issue. https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/21-tacoma-still-vibrates-after-tsb.740185/page-4

I have attached both the TSB, and the Spicer manual, and the calculator from @BaconTaco which I'm trying to make sense of. It seems like he understands it more so than I do.

Good luck and keep us posted
Mike

 

All good info, thanks. Yes, I've been in that other thread a bunch, besides creating this one. The fact that the most forward angle is far out of spec with what Spicer says and cannot be easily adjusted, is frustrating and I bet, a big part of the problem. The lightweight frame and possibly the lack of double cardan joint could also contribute. I sometimes wonder if some frame reinforcement and/or camper shell and the weight of it would help this issue. Before I put my 1/2 degree shims in, adding 250lbs in the bed and/or 3 passengers and full tank of gas, really toned down the vibes. I have yet to test it with my shims installed and the added weight but will try it this week. I may eventually try what Dualport did if I can confirm lowering the rear of the drivetrain at the t-case mount, will not cause me other problems elsewhere. The mounts about $90 and I have fab and welding skills so it'd be easy enough.

All this makes me wonder how the 4th gen will come equipped because that's another option for me. Maybe 'upgrade" when it comes out. We know it has a fully boxed frame and coil spring multi-link rear end which should help back there. I haven't been able to find out if it has a different type of driveshaft and if it still has that stupid clamshell bearing in the front diff. I do know one thing personally, not all 3rd gens vibrate. I had a 2018 SR, essentially the same exact truck I have now. Got it new and put 50k on it. Not a single vibration out of that truck, ever! What it did have, was a janky shifting transmission which the dealer could never fix. My 2022 SR shifts perfectly. Go figure. Close your eyes and throw a dart with these trucks!

That's a good calculator you attached. Spicer has one too.

https://spicerparts.com/calculators/driveline-operating-angle-calculator