Advice: Brakes or Gears

Don’t folks swap like 4Runner/gx brake over?

I know this is posted in 2nd gen but seems to be a lot of gen 3 activity too

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...bk-upgrade-for-2nd-gen-tacomas.504234/page-24

 

Some do, but require 4Runner or low offset wheels. Otherwise the wheel spokes will scrape the calipers. And they require 17’s.

 

I have warped the shit out of OEM rotors under heavy load emergency stops though. My work trucks 1 2nd gen Tacoma and 2016 1 F150 were both likely to be loaded heavy about 50% of the time and running in big city expressways.

 

Do you not need a 4Runner MC for that swap?

 

The hydraulic booster 4Runners are set up with the same bore as the hydraulic booster Tacomas, so at least on those I would say no.

I believe the bore is slightly different on the vacuum booster 4R than vacuum Tacomas though.

 

I should add a bit of information. Tacoma brakes are 319x28mm. The '03-'09 4R optional larger brakes were 338x28mm. 2010+ 4R brakes are 338x32mm, which dissipate heat a bit better being thicker, and the caliper model to go with that newer thicker rotor had larger pistons. Since both the '03-'09 and '10+ are larger diameter, they require the 17" wheels, however, the 03-09 would probably work fine on Tacoma wheels because they were the 28mm width rotor. I don't know that for sure though. Most people upgrading to 4Runner brakes go for the 338x32mm, which have been proven to not clear Tacoma wheels. I've seen a couple people on the 4Runner forum try to slap on Tacoma Sport wheels with the +30mm offset and they didn't clear the caliper, probably because the brakes are thicker and the caliper likely sticks further out as a result. 4Runner wheels usually have +15mm or +4mm offset as opposed to +25 and +30 of my Tacomas.

As for MC bore, like I said, the models with hydraulic boosters are the same between 4R and Tacoma. So we know those are good. The Tacoma 319mm calipers and the '03-'09 4R 338x28mm calipers have the same size 45.31mm pistons. So installing those would not change anything except the leverage the driver has due to the caliper being mounted further out on a larger rotor. So that swap would simply only upgrade leverage, which is not a bad thing.

The '10+ 4Runner calipers (for 338x32mm brakes) upped the piston size to 48mm, which, combined with the same old booster will give the driver more clamping power, but at the cost of further pedal travel. It will be a more power braking set up though. Of course, there is also the leverage upgrade from the caliper being mounted further out, much like the older 4Runner 28mm setup.

The rear brakes on the hydraulic booster setup are pretty simple. You press the pedal, and an electric motor pumps brake fluid to the rear continuously. There is nothing tied to how much pedal effort you give changing the rear brake bias. So nothing to be concerned about there from the additional braking power up front. And since the 4Runner and Tacoma both had the same hydraulic booster with different sized front calipers, we know it would work fine. They would just have slightly different pedal feels and required amounts of pedal effort for stopping power.

Where you would need to look into an upgrade on the booster would be if the calipers had much larger pistons, like 50+ mm pistons, which would require the pedal to travel so far that you might run out of pedal length. The Tacoma stock hydraulic booster pedal is so stiff and short throw that the 4Runner calipers are just fine, and the additional stopping power from the leverage would probably keep you about in the same pedal range anyways.



It gets more complicated when looking at the vacuum boosted models of each vehicle, I am having trouble finding the specs of the 4Runner vacuum boosted setup. From what I can find about the Tacoma, it is around a 20mm MC bore. I could be wrong on that, just going off of what the parts on RockAuto show. From what I have seen posted here by reliable sources, I believe the hydraulic booster is 26.99mm, so it would be better off stepping up to the larger piston calipers than the vacuum boost Tacoma would.

If it weren't for wanting the 16" wheels, I would probably consider stepping up to the '03-'09 4Runner brakes, simply because they would work with the Tacoma Sport wheels that I would run instead of the 16" OR wheels. However, I insist on keeping the OR wheels, so I am sticking with stock brakes. I'd probably run 4R wheels if I wanted the '10+ brakes, but I don't really like 4R or aftermarket wheels.

I should credit Jeff Lange as where I got most of the information above from. He has lined out the details multiple times before.

 

IMO bigger brakes might be slightly noticeable, regear will be very noticeable. normal driving, power delivery, gas mileage, if you have an automatic, gear selection by the trans will all be improved. regear would be way more worth it

 

It surprises me how much this subject comes up. I suspect it’s because we live in the era of ABS brakes. Before ABS it was much more intuitive that the tires are the limiting factor in braking distance in normal circumstances (not track racing or riding your brakes down a mountain).

It also seems like a failure in understanding that a system is only as strong as its weakest part.

 

A big brake kit won't help you stop faster. Your brakes and already lock up your wheels.

Toyota has to follow The NHTSA's "FMVSS 135". Since March 1, 1999 all vehicles sold under 10000 lbs, are required to have good brakes. Unless your taking your Tacoma to track days, it's a waste of money.

Go with the gears.

 

I was talking about the link I posted being from 2nd gen section, but if you read through that thread it seems there are plenty of members with 3Gs swapping 4Runner parts to their trucks.. that’s all!

@AY_ARONTRD ‘s truck

 

noted.. based on previous posts I think OP stated he has 17s/ also is considering wilwood kit that requires 17s or larger..

 

My 2nd gen OR with the hydraulic booster have the touchiest and strongest brakes of any vehicle I’ve driven. I’m hate my brakes because they are so strong and sensitive.

I have 35s and live in Colorado. Not once have I been worried about brake fade or lack of brakes. Learn how to downshift and engine brake and you will be fine.

 

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I was mostly wondering about the brakes due to how heavy my truck is. It is unclear if everyone read that part of my post

But I am leaning towards gears. And then do brakes later or if I start having some issues.

 

We saw it. It sounds like you are not currently having brake problems. Do the gears, and then do the brakes later if you get to the point where you need them. Like many have said, if you can lock up the tires, you don’t need brakes. If you fade them due to how you drive then adjust driving or upsize them at that point. There are plenty of folks here with 33’s and weight and still running stock just fine.

 

Got it. Appreciate all the input.

 

seems like the hold up is cost. I would say unless you going crazy you don't need bigger brakes. I would do EBC yellow pads with some drilled and slotted rotors. Mix that with SS brake lines and you'll be good. All of that would run like $400. I've always been an advocate for over kills brakes. Never know when you might need them and it's better to be a little overkill then not have them and need them. Having better brakes has saved multiple of my vehicles from being totaled.

 

Yeah, I didn't think they would both be similar a price. (Most places around here only install or prefer to install Powerbrake) Your advice is a nice middle ground.

 

You could do brakes in your driveway pretty easy if you wanted. The brake lines would require 2 people to bleed but other then that its all pretty easy.

 

But I want someone to blame if something goes wrong

I feel like I could do the brake install; I was just wanted to avoid doing the bleed.