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Any Updates? (1995 3RZ-FE Cranks, No Start Diagnosis)

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by JoeBro, Dec 8, 2024.

  1. Dec 8, 2024 at 5:18 AM
    #1
    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Hello Folks,

    I'm new, and trying to help my friend with his 1995 4wd auto 3RZ-FE (250k). I've got plenty of experience around all things automotive, and I've been driving a 1992 2wd Yoter for 27 years, with 370k on now. It's my every day lover.

    On to the problem. Cranks, but not starting By the way, I've read this post below along with many others.
    1995 2.7l Won't start, has fuel and spark | Page 2 | Tacoma World

    Any updates?

    I've got compression, spark, and fuel in this 3RZ motor.

    Conditions:
    1. No Codes showing on OBDII
    2. Got Compression
    3. Got Spark
    4. Got Fuel
    5. Will not start spraying either into the intake
    6. The tach does not move or bounce when cranking (odd??)

    Checked:
    1. Cold Engine Compression: 1-90psi, 2-135psi, 3-135psi, 4-135psi (haven't performed a leakdown yet, but I know #1 is suspect)
    2. Fuel Press:30 psi (can pinch the return hose after the regulator and get it pressure up to 40psi, but still no start). Pressure will hold at 21psi for several minutes after cranking.
    3: Injector Voltage: 12.5v
    4: Distributor checks good on primary & secordary coils per Toyota Service Manual
    5. All fuses and relays test good (Open circuit relay, EFI relay, AM2, EFI fuse, etc.)
    6. Checked Crankshaft Position Sensor, and it checks good per Toyota Service Manual.
    7. Jumped Open Circuit Relay to see if any help, didn't work.
    8. Unplugged MAF, no help, MAF is original & clean
    9. Cleaned up plugs, as they looked a little dirty. Nice Bright Spark when grounded and checked.
    10. Engine Coolant Temp sensor appears to be reading the correct temp (about 40F right now where I'm located)

    Things noticed:
    1. When checking spark with spark tester, very nice and bright on each cylinder.
    2. When pulling plug after cranking, it appears enough fuel is getting there. Not for sure if too much or too little, but it appears good to me.
    3. The engine only cranks about 135 rpm even when boosted (seems slow??)

    Here are my next steps
    1. Pulling upstream O2 sensor, and trying to start (cat plugged?)
    2. Pulling EFI fuse to keep from possible flooding??
    3. Pulling Valve Cover to see if something going on there with timing maybe?

    Any other next steps recommended?

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2024
  2. Dec 8, 2024 at 6:42 AM
    #2
    02hilux

    02hilux What do you mean there’s no road, I’m here

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    Dumb question but is the firing order correct? I see too often when plugs are changed and spark plugs wires are placed in the wrong location.

    MAF?
     
  3. Dec 8, 2024 at 7:33 AM
    #3
    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Yes, I checked firing order. Visual inspection of MAF looks good, and OBDII live data shows 10.2 before cranking and no codes.

    Is there another electrical/functional test known for the MAF on this year?

    Was hoping not to fire the “parts cannon” and start replacing stuff just yet.
     
  4. Dec 9, 2024 at 7:35 PM
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    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    So I pulled the valve cover, lined up cams with their respective timing marks, and WAH-LAH! There was the problem staring back at me,..with the help of a shop light of course.

    Anyone care to guess?
     
    wilcam47 likes this.
  5. Dec 9, 2024 at 7:55 PM
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    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    Hmmmm

    after u lined up T marks on cam gears?

    Something with how the dizzy was stabbed?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2024
  6. Dec 10, 2024 at 4:54 AM
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    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Distributor is good! (Yes, the timing marks on the two overhead cams are lined up properly). Any other guesses?
     
  7. Dec 10, 2024 at 5:33 AM
    #7
    NOLAN_3G4R

    NOLAN_3G4R Active Member

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    Was the harmonic balancer shot?
     
  8. Dec 10, 2024 at 5:39 AM
    #8
    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Balancer appears to be intact. (Hint: you are looking in the vicinity as to where I saw the problem)
     
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  9. Dec 10, 2024 at 7:34 AM
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    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    Did the balancer slip and she was timed wrong?
     
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  10. Dec 10, 2024 at 8:03 AM
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    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Bingo!! I’ve not begin tearing down the lower half yet, but how in the “wide world of sports” did the timing jump? The cam sprocket looks wonderful & chain is tight. That crankshaft sprocket must be toast along with the tensioner.

    Is this common on the 3RZ? This motor has 250k & never been touched.

    (My little 370k 22RE I drive everyday is on its 3rd chain & sprocket set.)
     
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  11. Dec 10, 2024 at 8:10 AM
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    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    It is a somewhat common thing.
     
  12. Dec 10, 2024 at 9:18 AM
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    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Thanks for the reply to the “commonality” question. So, I’m curious. What am I gonna find? A wore out crankshaft sprocket?

    Just from a visual estimate, the crankshaft looks like it’s about 25-30 degrees behind the valve timing. I’m trying to understand the rotational momentum that would have moved the camshafts ahead of the crank.

    Learn something new everyday!
     
  13. Dec 10, 2024 at 11:39 AM
    #13
    Glamisman

    Glamisman Well-Known Member

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    After 20+ years of use the rubber between the 2 pressed halves gets weak and allows the outer part that the serpentine belt is on slips
     
  14. Dec 10, 2024 at 12:25 PM
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    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    Or its wobbled enough to jump the crank key.....

    HB usually wobbles on its death throws.......
    I've never seen one break clean thru on the rubber.

    It's very doubtful the sprocket is wore any at all

    the chained timing systems on these exceed rest of vehicle


    As these age we're seeing more and more HB failures...
    best is to catch that wobble early

    they can crack inside of timing covers and destroy crank keyways....

    with oem's running $300.......a generic one installed in the past might fail quicker/easier
    and without the wobble......

    If you were to swap an engine I'd replace this and the water pump automatically....
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2024
  15. Dec 10, 2024 at 2:11 PM
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    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Forgive my ignorance, but I'm reading into the comments above that you all believe the harmonic balancer has slipped. Very possible. I've seen that before too, and maybe in this case it's resulted in the extreme offset of timing marks between the crank and camshaft?

    However it was my hope that the timing mark on the HB being offset was due to the crank being out of time with the cams causing the primary problem of the engine cranking and not starting. The engine had everything else to run.

    I'll dig into it, and look at the mark on the crank sprocket. I'm hoping/expecting that little timing mark on the crank to be off as was the HB. Else, I have no idea why this engine didn't start.
     
  16. Dec 10, 2024 at 3:23 PM
    #16
    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    Hmmm
    I see what you’re saying Joebro

    the inr ring of the failed HB would be bolted/woodruff keyed in same place …..not affecting timing
    The otr HB ring would spin/make noise but not affect timing

    (am I totally off here?)

    keep everyone posted

    search woodruff key for some ideas of what (glup) you might find
     
  17. Dec 10, 2024 at 5:38 PM
    #17
    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the HB has shifted......I would look elsewhere first

    I think it would be obvious if the rubber is deteriorated that much.

    more often they dont pin that spring loaded exhaust cam gear right....and bounces back one tic


    And actually biggest reason these dont start....is pre 98 distributor problems...

    you need a specialist in those two years......to help troubleshoot
     
  18. Dec 11, 2024 at 6:44 AM
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    JoeBro

    JoeBro [OP] Member

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    Well,...I've been following the Factory Service Manual troubleshooting on the distributor. It checks good. Also, I haven't noticed any visual or weird stuff going on. Values measured below on coils.

    Primary Coil (cold) - .4 Ohms measured, FSM suggested tolerance = .36-.55 Ohms
    Secondary Coil (cold) - 11.5 Kohms measured, FSM suggested tolerance = 9-15.4 Kohms
    Signal Generator (cold) - 220 ohms measured, FSM suggested tolerance = 185-275 ohms

    Gearing looks like it's meshing well to the cam, no broken teeth.

    And, just the good ol'spark plug test grounding out yields a very nice spark. I really don't think there's any issue there. Still hoping that timing chain has jumped somehow, else I'm at a loss.
     
  19. Dec 11, 2024 at 1:54 PM
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    ControlCar

    ControlCar My Moto: Help & Learn…period.

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    Clock Volt meter/LSPV Delete/Hyundai 16’s/FP gauge/after 9months of wrenching ZERO oil leaks
    if T marks correct on top cam gears and T marks correct on crank shaft
    doubtful if 'jumped' tooth

    how did you confirm fuel delivery?
    got a FP reading?
    $15 FPR on the end of the fuel rail nearest to rad? (easy bench test)

    also there is another airbox temp sensor $9 another member told me about....if not reading same no start issue like CTS on back of head?

    IMO bc no popping codes.....i would concentrate on Fuel
     
  20. Dec 11, 2024 at 9:59 PM
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    O'Silver_Taco

    O'Silver_Taco Well-Known Member

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    You can hot wire your open control circuit so pump stays on all the time....
    that is provide a ground......
    Pull that relay and test it....
    when those go bad, the coil dia-electric leaks out and fowls the plug blades....

    just because your getting fuel at crank does not mean its flowing when its handed off to the ecm....

    this would happen if crank sensor is bad.....open circuit relay is bad.....or both

     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2024

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