alignment tech/ help thread

I thought camber should be 0

 

1.8? That's way to much camber....you want 0 camber

 

IMO ideal is
~2 2.5 caster
0 toe or less than 1/16
0 camber *

SAI is steering axis inclination. KPI is king pin inclination. Basically they're a sort of "fixed" number that is built into the suspension geometry. If they're way off you know that something is bent.

I'm doubting you've bent an LCA. But it's possible they wrecked it or something.

Where this guy has bent his UCA mount/coil bucket and LCAs he must be really abusing/racing/jumping his truck. General off road, even shit I do that really isn't a concern. Smacking a curb sideways at 50mph/wreck, possibly.

Steering Axis Inclination (SAI)
SAI is the measurement in degrees of the steering pivot line when viewed from the front of the vehicle. This angle, when added to the camber to form the included angle (see below) causes the vehicle to lift slightly when you turn the wheel away from a straight ahead position. This action uses the weight of the vehicle to cause the steering wheel to return to the center when you let go of it after making a turn. Because of this, if the SAI is different from side to side, it will cause a pull at very slow speeds. Most alignment machines have a way to measure SAI; however it is not separately adjustable. The most likely cause for SAI being out is bent parts which must be replaced to correct the condition. SAI is also referred to as KPI (King Pin Inclination) on trucks and old cars with king pins instead of ball joints.

Included Angle
Included angle is the angle formed between the SAI and the camber. Included angle is not directly measurable. To determine the included angle, you add the SAI to the camber. If the camber is negative, then the included angle will be less than the SAI, if the camber is positive, it will be greater. The included angle must be the same from side to side even if the camber is different. If it is not the same, then something is bent, most likely the steering knuckle.

I know that won't make much sense until you can get a good idea of all the other terms and what's going on in your head but... basically if the numbers are way off you can start looking for bent parts.


I didn't see your alignment print out earlier, If I'm correct you have eibachs and .85 preload which is something like 3" lift yeah? With stock UCAs I'd expect your numbers to be right about where they're at. I wouldn't be too concerned unless you can't bring those numbers closer after you get UCAs, and then if that's the case have your alignment guy go over SAI and Included angle with you and you can look for a bent arm or spindle, but at this point I'm betting nothing is bent.

 

Will aftermarket UCAs help get Camber and Caster under control, or just Caster?


Also there isnt a word to describe how I will never be buying boxed LCAs for this truck, I offroad maybe twice a year. If they are really that weak then we should all start buying F-150s and Silverados... Also at the price of boxed LCAs and UCAs I would probably just sell the thing and get a sedan, I see the advantages of boxed LCAs, but it is not worth it for a truck that sees rough roads twice a year. I also really dont think it is bent, likely just a function of lifting it 2.5". But I will still check.

 

Oh it can happen VVV no "accident" on either of these trucks other than off roading lol

 

Go back up and read my post man. UCAs will allow you to get caster and camber both back to ideal specs.

I know it can happen without wrecking but theres a huge difference from what you do with your truck to what I do with my truck and what he does with his truck. I'm doubting anyone jumped the shit out of it, if it's bent it's probably been run into a curb or something at ridiculous speed. I just don't think it's bent.

 

I bent mine twice from just off roading on baja 1000 race roads in Mexico. I dont jump my truck yet, but we do bet the crap out of them. But common toyota's are made to be tough but I am finding they are made out of toilet paper......

 

Thanks, very good explination, I havent had a chance to look at anything, but i really doubt anything is bent too. I dont jump mine, and have not done a Baja 1000 with it, about 3 hrs of 25mph driving in some level sand is about all I have dont with it...

So is there a better UCA for what I am trying to fix? Or will they all accomplish the same thing. Ultimately I am looking to save money, started looking at the LR UCAs with the ball joint and then also the Built Right UCAs. Would like to find something used for $300ish. Given my use I dont see the point in going to a $600 set of new ones. My truck sees more highway than anything, and I typically dont go off road too much.

Also, it is eibachs on 5100s set at .85, but I have a DC 4x4 V6 so the added weight in the front should make it lower than 3", I should be closer or under 2.5" of lift. What is the stock measurement from wheel hub to fender in the front on a DC 4x4 2nd Gen?

 

Can't you get new LR UCA's for under $400 ? ^^^^^^^^

 

I see them at Wheelers for $419, anyone else have a good deal on UCAs? Also think I need a sway bar relocate kit and then some 1.25" wheel spacers. I dont see any GBs going on now.

 

Metaltech had a GB going on them for $375 , looks like it ended in June though

 

Try fatbobs.com

 

Cool, ~$380, that seems like a good deal. Is there a downside to the "adjustable" nature of these, http://fatbobsgarage.com/i-7194670-light-racing-upper-control-arms-toyota-tacoma-05.html, or are they just as strong as non-adjustable ones. I know they are a ball joint rather than a uni-ball, and that makes a difference, but for my type of usage, these will work just fine. But I would get a uni-ball if they were the same price.

 

I loved mine. Just messed up trying to change out the bushings and had to get new ones.

 

I don't personally have light racing uca's but I have a friend that does. He likes them but ive noticed that they get knocked out of alignment fairly easily. Every off road trip we've taken his has been knocked out pretty bad and mine was fine. I'm running dsm's desert products uca's.

 

I carried an 1 1/4" wrench to tighten it just in case. Mine never got knocked out it was always the lower arms....

 

What do you mean "knocked out of alignment". I've once and only once pushed the ball joint inward in the slot on the arm. That was also probably the most extreme rocks I've been in to date and I fucked up my sliders, and my door, and a tire and to be honest I was surprised I didn't break a tie rod rather than that ball joint sliding back like it did.

Any other case of messing up an alignment is going to be elsewhere. SPC changed the torque specs on the BJ nut too, so now it's tighter. I wheel my truck a fair bit and only had that one issue, which doesn't bother me in that I pushed that truck to the point I expected shit to break, but I don't jump it or any of that goofy shit.

 

Hey now! but seriously even jumping mine I never knocked the arms out.

 

Meaning after a wheeling trip, his truck pulls hard in one direction so the steering wheel is way off center when driving straight. Maybe the alignment techs aren't tightening bolts enough or something. I'm not sure, really. I just know that his alignment gets jacked up pretty easily.

 

Good to know, I usually take a torque wrench with me when I get my truck back from getting aligned and before I leave I check the torque on everthing, so this should be an issue. I also dont jump or do rocks, no sliders...

Still between the LR at $380 and the Built Rights at $470 http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/suspension/97398-new-built-right-ucas.html, the LR are a much better deal, but the BR might be stronger?