I think my 2011 rear end was replaced with a LSD mechanical rear differential ???

I dont really see why everyone is so in love with the LSD. Most of my experience with it is one wheel spinning in the air and the one one the ground not moving and guess what, stuck! Essentially its supposed to lock up the diff so this doesnt happen. I just assume be locked up and not have to worry about the more complex components taking a shit on me. http://youtu.be/lpf2pK-gGKk

 

You are describing an open differential, not a LSD. Very common, people w/ later model Sport Tacomas come in here and complain how their ELSD sucks and doesn't work w/ squat in low range - its deactivated in low range, you're running open diffs.

David

 

there are different LSD units. Truetrac is the one that will not work with one wheel in the air, TRD after market will try to pull with one wheel in the air but with 3 clutchpacks its very limited. Hino LSD that was installed in factory TRD sports and DCLB has 8 clutchpacks, with set of 4 sitting over each rear axle. Hino LSD does not slow down faster axle like other units do (including fake LSD ,) instead it makes sure no axle turns slower than r&p. (same way lockright operates).Hino is what Toyota installs in their trucks, so its made for much bigger vehicles (hence 4 pinion design)

 

Well, If this is the case, that you have a LSD: say out of a 2007 or so TRD Sport. It may be very interesting.

Here is my thought:
My BIL has a 2007 TRD Sport I have a 2008 TRD Off Road.

Yes, I know the electronic locker that I have is great for rock-climbing, maybe; and it fully locks the rear wheels together. But without the Locker Mod, that is discussed and modified on this forum (And Thank You Guys Very Much for that info); the TRD Off Road locker is a pain in the butt, for normal driving in our Snow Prone area.
It only "locks in", while the range selector is in 4x4 Low.

Normal driving, you are not in 4x4 Low. Don't forget this, 4x4 Low.

Scenario: Snow hard pack in my driveway, a little uphill, and a sharp right to get on the main road, and a little ice thrown in.
Oh by the way we are ruling out any tire difference here, just for the sake of this discussion. Someone would be quick to jump on that. So read the whole post before you blast this.

My BIL can pull up or back up the driveway and make the sharp turn, without wheel spin. The LSD is working as it should. Limiting wheel spin and transferring some power to the wheel with less traction.

Myself: I pull up the same place, turn right, if I made it that far, and lose traction and I am stopped. Remember I am NOT in 4x4 LOW.
So I have to back up, straighten up and put the truck in 4x4 High, to use the frontend to pull me out of my driveway. (I do not have the mod, that has been fully discussed here on this forum). I essentially have an open Rear-end and one wheel drive.

Don't get in a kick and start blasting the tires, I actually have dedicated winter tires that use for ice/snow. He doesn't.

The whole point of this long discussion: I have an open rear-end. BIL has a LSD differential. Better diving experience in everyday experiences, on poor traction roads, in 4x2. I have to use 4x4 where he doesn't'.

Later vehicles, Not 2007 and 2008 have A-Trac and whatever.

My Locker is great for some instances, but not driving everyday in 4x2. I'm always using 4x4 to get around.

I'm fully aware of the differential differences; having raced stock cars and sprint cars for years.

 

What you are describing is the exact reason I bought a Sport in '07 instead of the OR. When I bought another in '12, they both have ELSD, so I got the OR to add the locker and ATRAC. I have tested the trucks side by side over a bunch of different terrains and the ELSD works just as well as the mechanical LSD on the '07, except you've got the added aggravation of having to switch traction control off in 2wd (engage auto LSD), where the mechanical LSD just works...

David

 

So now that this thread seems to have wandered off-track (pun!) and is discussing more details, a question comes to mind:

What is the Golden Combo we off-roaders might want?

Obviously the generic answer is manual lockers + mechanical LSD + whatever the truck's (properly modified) electronic controls add to the mix. I'm more interested in specific available parts, be they stock or aftermarket. Y'know, for someone who might be looking to swap out the whole third member only once, without regretting s/he had gone with Combo X instead of Combo Y. And as far as my own personal interest is concerned, I've got 4x4, so front *and* rear diffs.

 

IMO, the ideal combination doesn't exist for the Tacoma. The ideal combination is the Limited set-up on the 4Runner w/ ARB lockers installed front and rear. This combination will give you full time 4wd w/ an open center diff for driving in bad weather on the street, traction control on the highway, no traction control if you select it off, 4WD ELSD in 4H, ATRAC strong ELSD in 4L, fully locked front/rear/center diffs at your command while using the slightly stronger non-elocker rear diff.

The closest you will get in the Tacoma is a Sport w/ ARB lockers front and rear.

David

 

What's so nice about the Sport?

 

Sport still gets ELSD in 4H, can be modified to give ELSD in 4L (not as good as ATRAC, but it still works). The e-locker rear diff on the OR model is not as strong as the larger standard housing on the Sport. The skewp is cool!

I have an OR and have had no problems with it. I also don't wheel routinely through big rocks and I'm running 265/75 R16's. Add bigger tires and wheel regularly w/ a lot of steep climbs and/or big rocks that can bind the differential and the failure rate is very high for the e-locker.


David

 

FWIW there have been lots of guys rolling around out in the rocks with 35s for years and wheeling hard with their 8" e-locker rear ends and have not broken them yet. I've seen one guy rocking 37s and I'm pretty sure he was still using the factory 8" e-locker. Either way if mine breaks it's getting upgraded to something a lil heavier

Just thought I'd throw that out there since it seems like sometimes everybody you meet thinks that because you off road with an 8" e-locker and bigger tires you're guaranteed to break your rear end...

 

^This

To add to this, I've found that I like the added benefit of shutting off the LSD during winter conditions. This leaves me with open diffs. The benefit of the open diff for me is that the rear end is more predictable when cornering under acceleration on snow and ice. With mechanical LSD that rear end will kick sideways quicker if you're engaging in spirited driving.

 

Agreed on both points! I don't think the e-locker rear diff is as weak as its made out to be. I'm driving a '12DCSB OR and all I've done to it is add tires, mild lift and rear diff/actuator breather. For my needs its more than capable - heck, I never had a problem w/ the '07 Sport...

David

David

 

IMHO
If its pure offroad truck (no daily driving, not running errands around the town) than F/R lockers hands down.
If you use truck as daily driver and like to hit few trails in-between work week. Than LSD in the back and locker at the front.
If truck is 2009+ with Toyota traction than TrueTrac LSD on the back. For trucks with no traction control I would say Factory Hino is the best choice.

 

i pulled a dodge up a hill/trail the other day. mostly loose gravel

2wd-no go
4wd high- mad clutch (so i didnt use it)
4wd low- lots of wheel slip and spin
4wd low-locker less spin in the back, less control in front
4wd low-A trac, no sweat..

i was very suprised. Considering i almost never used the A trac system in the past this time it made all of the difference.

One thing i did notice was that in a heavy slip situation the A-trac continues applying brakes and you lose power. One section of the climb A-trac stalled the truck in 2nd gear low 4 and once restarted without A-trac (using the locker) it had no problem

Its a great set of tools that work well to cover a large variety of situations. There is a write up somewhere on here explaining all of the traction control modes of a TRD OR and i have to say, for the first time ever i like a electronic traction control system.

i still HATE the traction control on my 06 4runner. F*** that thing. Its an sr5 and its annoying, and feels unsafe in the snow/rain and it sucks offroad. It feels very GM

 

.... so if I understand correctly... the ELSD only works if you disable the traction control? Can someone smarter than me confirm this?

And does the ELSD in the 2013 sport actually cause both wheels to engage if one is spinning or does it just slow or stop the spinning tire? Because that doesn't sound like a LSD... that sounds like traction control.

 

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...-controls-trac-auto-lsd-trac-rear-locker.html

In 2wd on the Trucks w/ ELSD the default operation (what the truck is doing when you just start it up and drive off) is traction control mode. This use the ABS system to divert power from the wheel that slips to the wheel that grips - this is a weak limited slip differential w/ regulated engine output to prevent wheel spin.

If you press the VSC button once it gives you Auto LSD which is the simulated ELSD. The ABS system will be used to divert power to both wheels, there is no throttle limitation. It feels and drives just like a mechanical LSD. VSC is still engaged and will limit throttle if the truck starts sliding sideways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mwDJpBg4Ts

If you come to a stop and press and hold VSC for 3 seconds it (mostly) disables VSC and deactivates ELSD and you are running open diffs that will allow you to slide - if you get to crazy w/ the sliding VSC will still kick in even though its deactivated. VSC is never off, just reduced.

David

 

since ELSD is using breaks its impossible for system to speed up any wheel. Physically impossible.

 

FYi I have my Mechanical LSD up for sale still if anybody interested.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacoma-marketplace/295590-fs-3-73-gears-mechanical-lsd.html

 

Uh - did you click the video? What do you see going on there? Both rear tires spinning, steady accelerating to redline. That's with Auto LSD activated.

The system doesn't just apply brakes. It brakes the wheel that is spinning to get the non-spinning wheel power, but it doesn't brake the other rear wheel or apply front brakes. The brake pressure applied is not full power or ever necessarily really strong either, there is no feeling of the vehicle braking. Its just enough braking power to get power transferred to the other wheel. It is essentially no different in feel or operation than the mechanical LSD.

That feeling you get of lost power from traction control kicking in or VSC kicking is not from braking, its from the ignition being cut out to limit power.

HTH

David

 

Isn't it like the old Posi-tractions? Do a burnout, if you leave two big old black streaks up the street, it's a locker. If it's one black streak, it's open.