Drop bracket lifts and turning radius

Hello everyone,

I have a:
2012 DCSB 4WD TRD OffRoad

If it makes a difference, here's what I'm doing:
Fabtech 6" Basic, 17x9 XD Revolvers, 4.5 BS, -12mm offset, 315/70R17 Duratracs


Drop bracket haters need not reply!





So I've "searched" for MONTHS on this topic, trying to determine just how "bad" the turning radius becomes after installing a drop bracket lift; specifically, the Fabtech 6". I have that very kit sitting in my garage right now; boxes unopened, and this "turning radius dilemma" is driving me mad.

I've read some people say that with the Fabtech (but also most drop bracket lifts in general) its "terrible" (can no longer do u-turns or even park in a parking spot), and then some others say that its "not that bad".

I've already PM'd a couple of TW members about the issue, and so far only one guy has replied (Wizzard005), and he said he doesn't remember having any turning radius issues at all... I've studied this thread quite a bit: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...e-turning-radius-after-6-fabtech-install.html and dozens of others, both here on TW and other forums as well. Most threads seem to go dead after a few posts and are NOT helpful at all; no solid tech or resolutions posted up. So I thought I'd start my own thread to try and lay this issue to rest.

First, I thought I'd compare turning radii of a few different vehicles to get a sense of what's "bad".

2012 Tacoma: 46.5 feet

A 2005 Suburban (my mother-in-law's rig): 43 feet
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/suburban/2005/features-specs/
2014 Tundra: 44 feet
2014 Silverado: 40 feet
2014 Ram 1500: 39.5 feet
2014 F-150: 41.7 feet
http://blog.motorists.org/2014-toyota-tundra-review/

So in stock form, Tacoma's is already the "Worst" turning radius.

Just how much worst does it get with a drop bracket lift?

 

Your DB lift shouldn't affect the turning radius since you are not modifying the steering system. Larger tires may have a small affect but nothing major. Good luck and welcome to the club.

 

Thanks!

This thread says differently: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...e-turning-radius-after-6-fabtech-install.html

And if you look at the pics (starting at post #5) of the steering stops that are cast into the Fabtech steering knuckles/spindles, you'll see why I'm concerned.

By the way, which DB kit do you have?

 

Definitely losses turning radius.

I have heard of people grinding down the steering stops to help it

 

I have a Pro comp 6" lift. Totally forgot about the steering stops on the spindles. I haven't touched my stops and it's just okay as far as turning radius. I'm used to it and can't even remember how it turned around before the lift....

Now that I look at the Fabtech stops, there is a lot of metal there. I think a grinder should be your next best friend. Good luck.

 

The turning radius on the Fabtech kit sucks - nothing you can't get used too though. The Pro Comp kit has a different style spindle so it allows for a better turning radius. You can modify the stops to allow for more, the kit is conservative out of the box to prevent rubbing IMO.

I had the fabtech kit, and got rid of it recently. My turning radius is friggin AMAZING I can do U-turns on a dime (at least it feels like it now...) just be warned there is almost no going back from a DB kit on a 4x4 without some custom fab work...

 

AaronArf,

I looked at your build thread quite a bit and saw that you switched from a DB to a LT. Believe me, I've swung on the pendulum from DB kits, to the MT kits and even the LT option (briefly), and then swung back to DB, about 3 times now.

Ultimately, this is my wife's DD that we also use to tow our little 18' ski boat, and we load it full of gear for hunting trips and pull an ATV trailer sometimes. It does see some trail use (especially hunting), but it probably won't ever be "rock crawling" just for the sake of it. I've somehow justified the 35s and a regear to 4.56 (since we tow), as being just as "practical" as a MT with 285s. The MT has its own "issues and fixes" to contend with, such as new UCAs, needing extended travel coilovers v.s. standard travel to obtain more than 1" of down travel, etc. Cost-wise, the DB and MT aren't much different, but the DB allows a 2" bigger tire without "creative sawzall art". I figured towing a trailer with 285s would leave something to be desired anyway, so a regear with just 285s would probably be ideal. If I'm already doing that, why not "go big".

Now, that all being said, AaronArf, did you ever trim the steering stops on your Fabtech spindles? I called and talked to a tech guy at Fabtech, and he told me their steering stops are what they are to prevent over-extending the CVs.

 

With regards to my last sentence, if the Pro Comp knuckles/spindles DON'T limit turning radius like the Fabtech ones do, it leads me to think that the engineering/geometry/steering angles (ie. Ackerman angle?) of the two different brands might be different... ?

If I grind down the steering stops (which Fabtech told me is "not recommended", ... duh), I'm concerned that I'll "over-extend" the CVs during a hard turn. But the other half of me wonders if that's just a "canned answer" that Fabtech hands out so that they don't have to "eat crow" on the design of their knuckles/spindles... I truly am suspecting whether or not their steering stops aren't just big and clumsy because that was the cheap way to cast them. But I could be very wrong on that notion. Maybe everything Fabtech told me is true. But why would they design it like that, when 6 other DB manufacturers don't?


I've looked at other DB kits too.

RCD: just too dang expensive (ridiculous actually) :roll eyes:

BDS: nice kit, but requires 18" wheels/tires. So overall price jumps up and tire selection goes down. I also don't know how I feel about there NOT being compression struts in the design. I'd rather not have them, but I've come to believe that they're probably necessary.

 

I have the RCD lift kit, and the only reason I feel I have less of a turning radius is because my tires are too damn wide. my next set will be skinnier and prolly turn better.

 

Both Rcd and Bds are excellent kits. If you are considering bds you might want to also look at zone which is the same as the bds kit. Only difference is the stamping on the skid plates. Also If I were you I would look at the basic kit in either bds or zone and build it to your liking. You can actually buy and use the rcd front longer shocks on any of the db kits. Myself and RADTACO914 both used these front shocks on our kits.

When I pulled the trigger on the lift I went with (zone ) I was able to add the rcd front shocks, get the longer rear bilstein 5100's, add ss brake lines front and rear, and add expo springs in the rear and ended up spending less on this versus the std rcd kit. Running 18" wheels really is no big difference between running 17's either.

 

BORNWILDGUY,

Thanks for the info on that! So how is YOUR turning radius with your setup?

 

Turning radius was fine. They give you small lil tabs to weld on the inside of the lower balljoint stop area which I never used as I didn't need them. So this might help a lil with the turning radius

 

It is a tough call..I did not modify my steering stops I just got used to the turning radius...the Fabtech spindle bolts directly to the lower ball joint the other kits re-use the LBJ brackets. I think you'd be fine trimming the stop back a bit - there is a thread where a guy did and I don't think he had any issues. Some trimming will still be required for the 35s. BDS says 18" + wheel because of some issues with the VSC sensors...I think there is a guy running 15s with no issues!

 

I saw one thread where a guy said basically the same thing, and added that changing the LBJ on Fabtech knuckles is a PITA because of this. Beginning to think I need to ditch the Fabtech all together.

You're probably referring to TW member "ilya47" and specifically that one thread I keep referencing: http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...e-turning-radius-after-6-fabtech-install.html You'd replied on that thread quite a bit, actually.
I've PM'd ilya47 regarding his Fabtech knuckle trimming (specially a long-term review of the results) and haven't heard back yet.

This is news to me. So what's the deal with wheel sizes messing with VSC? Some kits require 17s, while others require 18s. School me.

 

This^
I also try to never turn all the way either

 

The fabtech kit makes swapping a CV more difficult than with the LBJ adapter style spindles for sure.

VSC is "Vehicle Stability Control" or something to that effect. Like a smarter traction control, the size of the rims can mess with the algorithm. Or something like that. Most guys have zero issues from what I've read.

 

The reason for having to run 18" wheels on bds / zone is due to the tie rods being mounted on the spindle the opposite way versus stock. Same with rcd and procomp requiring 17's.

 

Backspacing is key for tie rod/spindle clearance. VSC is the reason they want bigger rims

Warputers rig: Procomp on 16's

 

If you look in the picture I attached you will notice backspacing will help keep your wheel away from the spindle but the inside of the wheel clearly goes over the where the tierod mounts to the spindle. With the tierod being mounted from the top a smaller wheel will come in contact with the tierod. The insides of some wheels have more space that others which is why some 16" wheels will be able to fit on the procomp lift.

 

This is interesting. AaronArf, can you elaborate more on this please? (My biggest problem is that I analyze things too much). I like to see ALL avenues of anything I get into; including buying a lift kit. And if swapping CVs and LBJs is going to be a PITA simply based on knuckle design, I'm all ears. So what is it exactly about the Fabtech knuckles that makes swapping CVs so difficult? Is it the absence of the stock LBJ adapter pieces on the bottom of its knuckles, and therefore the knuckle just gets in the way? Which leads me to another question: how much more difficult is it then to change out LBJs on the Fabtech v.s. other brand knuckles?

Wheel size requirements to clear the knuckles/spindles and tie rods makes perfect sense to me. But I'm still unclear as to why wheel size would effect the VSC. Isn't the VSC just a system that uses sensors to "sense" vehicle instability and then it makes corrections via the braking system? How does wheel size have anything to do with that function? Forgive my ignorance.

If you don't know the answer to that, I suppose it doesn't really matter; just as long as I use the brand's specified wheel size.

BORNWILDGUY, that's a great picture. Thanks.