New to the forum! Regearing to 4.56 questions

Hi there I am a new member to the forum so im sorry if this should have been posted somewhere else. I have a black 2014 Tacoma double cab 4L V6. I absolutely love this truck. I have owned it for about 8 months and its perfect. As of right now it is bone stock besides a few new stickers. I am planning on getting a 6inch coil over kit from BDS, 35 inch Toyo Open Country M/T's, and not sure on rims yet. I am also planning on re gearing to 4.56. I also want to get a new exhaust, thinking of a flowmaster duel exhaust but still deciding. And eventually a 12 inch sub and new door speakers probably. My question is how much will it be to re gear + labor? And where is the best place to buy the parts from? I will have a shop install it because it will probably be easier for me. I want to gain back some of that power lost from those big tires and hoping the exhaust will help that also. I want to re-gear to 4.56 because everyone says it is better for highway and lower RPM's. The tacoma is my daily driver and i drive mostly highway and around town. I offroad about 25% of the time (not crazy off roading) for hunting and camping along with other outdoor activities. How much will it be to re gear and labor? What is the best company or brand to buy? And I know i am going to sound stupid and im sorry, but from what it sounds like people say you need a new clamshell, like i said i know i sound stupid my bad haha, but if im just regearing to 4.56 will i need a new clamshell or is that only for 4.88 and bigger? Or can i just buy the ring and pinion, take it to the shop, and have them install it and be good to go? Also is there anything else i should be aware of or any advice for re gearing my truck? i will have my local shop install everything from my lift and tires to regearing. If anyone can post a link to a good website and good gears to get, it would be much appreaciated! Thank you very much for your help and patience! You guys have no idea the help and time you guys are saving me! Have a great day glad to be a part of the forum finally!

 

I can not help you with the cost side. I can tell you that 4.56 seem a little low in my opinion. Very possible with that much gear change you will need a carrier change. I would think more in line on 4.11's or close to that ratio. Summit has some on line calculators that you can play with own your gearing.

Good luck with your build.

 

4.56 will make your RPM's higher.
You'll gain power but turn some high RPM's at high way speeds.

 

4.56 is a good choice for 35s. You will gain torque and rpms, and lose fuel economy.
East Coast Gear Supply is the best place to get gears. I've bought from them twice now, and no complaints.
If you are changing the front gears, I recommend doing a complete R&R. Just swap thirds and you'll be better off than buying gears and hoping a shop knows what they're doing. ECGS can help you there, too.
The rear is very easy to change gears. If you don't do it yourself, any competent shop can do it. To save money, I would just buy the ring and pinion.
Frankly, if you don't do much wheeling, why sacrifice fuel economy that much for such a relatively insignificant gain in torque? As a freeway-driven DD, I would just leave it alone. Unless you think your wheeling plans may change, but then go for the gear swap at that point.

As for exhaust, my experience has shown that you'll actually suffer a power loss, fuel economy loss, and torque loss by going to Flowmaster (and it'll just die with a MagnaFlow). Research which mufflers maintain decent backpressure, and go with that. Flowmaster is good for a low grumble and high rpms, but not the best choice for daily driving. I would skip the dual exhaust, but each to hir own.
Fwiw: I went with a Flowmaster Super-50 purely for space reasons. I needed a place to put my OBA tank, and the best spot was directly above the muffler; the stock one took up all available room, so I needed something with a lower profile, but still wanted a decent low grumble (NOT a deafening grumble like a previous Flowmaster I had on a different car). I immediately noticed a drop in torque, but not nearly as much as the drop in torque when I tried out a MagnaFlow (had it on for literally five miles before taking it off. It sucked every last ounce of power out of my truck).

 

Thank you for your very helpful responce. I know a good amount about lifts and such but absolutly nothing about gears and re gearing. So what does an R&R set up mean or entail? If you could include a link to the right one for my 2014 tacoma you would be a life saver. And I didnt know i had to re gear the front and back haha. I really appreaciate the help, so thank you. So would 4.56 be good for what i do? I want to gain back the power that i am going to lose, and i know higher RPM=worse MPG, so does that mean higher RPM=better torque? Once again thanks for the help i might just pm you because you seem very smart on this subject. So if you wouldn't mind i might just do that. Or you can private message me the responce to this, if you want. Thank you very much have a great day!

 

R&R = Remove and Replace. Means a simple part swap. In terms of front diff, that means just pulling the third member and replacing it with another third member. No further disassembly.

If you regear only one diff, but have two on the truck, you lose 4wd, because the front axle and rear axle will now be turning at different speeds. Unless you're on ice, this basically means you'll literally explode the transfer case. If you stay purely in 2wd, then you can swap only one.
I swapped to 4.56 F&R a while back, and this past New Years Eve I blew up my rear. I swapped the blown third for my old 3.73 third, and drove around exclusively in 2wd (4.56 front, 3.73 rear) until I was able to replace the 4.56s. Once I did, I was back to being 4wd.

If you want to get back power lost from a tire size increase, regearing is the way to go. Just be prepared for a double hit on fuel economy, first from the tire size and weight, and second from the higher rpms the gears provide. If you're used to getting ~14mpg, expect to get no better than 12mpg, and likely less than that.
Higher rpms=more torque (torque=power), because you are shifting the operating window of the truck further into the power band. Higher rpms, to a certain point, mean more power. That is why the transmission downshifts when you punch it to pass, or why it lingers in higher rpms before shifting when you are aggressive on the throttle.

Only you can determine if regearing is right for you. If your goal is to gain back lost power, then yes. If you need more torque for wheeling, then definitely yes. If you use the truck for daily commuting, then maybe not. If you are concerned about fuel economy, then definitely not.

A few things to consider. If you have 4wd, and are stepping up tire size, then even if you don't now, it is likely you will do more wheeling in the future. If you think this is a possibility, then I would suggest upgrading the carrier to something other than open. The maximum one can do is front and rear ARB lockers, but at roughly $2000 each, it's generally reserved for the hard-core wheeling crowd. While it is possible to hit some good trails running open/open, you greatly increase your capability by, at a minimum, upgrading the rear carrier to something that keeps both rear tires turning at the same speed, however one decides to do that. I'm running LSD/open, because that's what I got a deal on; I have no complaints about it so far, but it is the lowest form of traction control above open. Regearing is the time to upgrade the carrier, since you will be changing everything out anyway. Research your options and make your decision before swapping things out. You may end up deciding to stay open/open.

Btw- swapping thirds is very easy to do. If you can do your own brakes, you can swap a third. It's when you start disassembling a third when you need to know what you're doing.

 

4.11's

 

Awesome man great write up. I really thank you for your help. I will probably have a few more questions in the future and i will PM you. I think i will be going with the 4.56. 35's and 4.56 gears will be good for me. The truck is my daily driver, but i only commute at most 10 miles a day total on average haha. School is 1.5 miles there and same coming back. Then about 3 to work and 3 back. So its nothing like some people have to do. No one complains about better fuel economy, but dropping down 2 mpg i can deal with for the added bonus of those gears. So if i did what i said and got the 6 inch lift and 35's what would you personally do? New R&R and replace front and back gears? I need to keep 4WD i use it about 3-4 times monthly. Which isn't much but i have had to rely on it at a few of my fishing spots and would hate to get caught without it and be really stuck. What would be the complete set up to regear to 4.56? What would be the main parts needed to re gear my truck to 4.56, just a list of the main parts would be great, while still having 4wd. Once again you have no idea how helpful you are being. And just a list of all the parts needed would be great. Would new R&R or whatever just drop in up front, and swap the gears in back and be good to go with 4WD still? Or is there more needed than the R&R, and ring and pinion set? Thanks!

PS... Another stupid question, but what is a third member, and where do i get it? I tried looking it up and nothing really came up. Also is my 2014 an 8" axle? On all the websites there are many different options and just making sure i am correct. Thank you so much!

 

Going from stock tires and gears to 33" tires and 4.56 jumps only 250rpm at 70mph (auto trans). So with 35s you're likely only turning around 150rpm more or so. Considering the extra rolling mass, tread width and wind drag that pretty much puts the truck back in its sweet spot.

However I would never re-gear for mileage, I always do it for performance. Your use of the truck would depend on re-gearing. If you can stand lots of gear hunting, poor performance, and drive high speed on a commute you may be able to tolerate stock gearing. I would never waste the time and money to swap from 3.73 to 4.10. You won't even notice the difference except the weight of your wallet.

If you have a manual trans, it already turns about 400rpm higher at 70mph. That's why they are rates at lower highway mileage. I'd suspect the manual trans to be fine with stock gears and 35s on highway. Performance will suffer off road and taking off from a start with a load. But highway rpm would be ok.

 

If i throw on 35's and re gear to 4.56 how much more will the RPM's rise than stock gears? Yes i am gearing for performance also. And at about 70 mph what will my RPM's be at roughly?

 

I'm no expert when it comes to re-gearing. In fact, I haven't done it yet. But it's on my list of mods, so I've already done a bit of research.

It's already been mentioned, but the easiest and smartest way seems to use East Coast Gear Supply. You buy a pre-assembled third member, front and rear, and they'll ship it to you. Then you have the choice of installing yourself or having a local shop do it. Either way, it doesn't sound too difficult. There are a few tutorials around for both.

Anyway, here's the link at ECGS for the pre-assembled third members for the 05+ Tacomas:

http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/c-1065072-assembled-3rds-clamshells-05-tacoma.html

With regards to the rear, the first thing you need to figure out is if you have the 8.4" rear differential without the e-locker or the 8" with the e-locker. Then go from there. There website has a lot of additional items to add such as new bearings, ARB air lockers, etc.

For example, I have a 2015 DCLB 4wd SR5. The rear differential is 8.4" without an e-locker. So the third members that I would need are:

Rear:
http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-788575-tacoma-8-4-non-eld-t100-tundra-3rd.html
Front:
http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-157223-tacoma-fj-8-reverse-ifs-clamshell.html

Tutorials that I've located:

Rear:
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2n...removal-installation-e-locker-3rd-member.html
Front:
http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/files/PDF Files/clamshell-removal.pdf
http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/files/PDF Files/toyota-clamshell-stub-shaft-removal.pdf

Good luck! If you're still lost, just give East Coast Gear Supply a call.

 

Some numbers from a calculator.

First pic, left side is 3.73 gears, 30.5" tires (numbers are dead on with my new sr5). Right side is 4.56 gears and 34.5" tires. Both automatic.



In the second pic, the right side is 3.73 gears and 34.5" tires.




Using a calculator here... http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html


For reference, if I had the numbers right last I checked, the manual trans on 30.5" tires puts you at 2447 rpm at 70mph. Maybe someone can verify.

 

Okay, first-off, "R&R" is not a part. It is a generic, broad description for Removing and Replacing parts. It simply means unbolt an old part and remove it from the vehicle (or furnace, or helicopter, or dishwasher, or computer, or soda machine, or...or...or...), then install new part and bolt it back onto the vehicle (or furnace, or helicopter, or dishwasher, or computer, or soda machine, or...or...or...).

I would definitely not do a 6" lift. Unless your truck is and will be exclusively a Mall Crawler. If you ever want to do real wheeling, or don't want to be laughed at on the trail, then get a real lift (~3", no blocks or spacers).

I will address parts later.

A third member is the removable part of the differential that contains the entire gearset, carrier, everything but the axles. "Third member" is interchangeable with "differential," but is usually used because it is slightly more specific terminology. When I say "R&R the third member," what I mean is remove the old differential as a complete unit, and replace it with another differential as a complete unit. All gears, bearings, shims, carriers, shafts, pinions, and everything else is already installed and included, and all you need to do is bolt it up.

It is really, really easy to tell if you have the weaker 8.0, or the stronger 8.4 (they both use 8.25" ring gears, so the designation is somewhat meaningless other than to differentiate the two). Do you have an Off Road model with the electronic locker? Then you have the weaker 8.0. Do you have a Sport or base model with no electronic locker? Then you have the stronger 8.4.
Weaker vs. stronger: The 8.4 has carrier bolt trusses, significantly strengthening the entire third member and gearset. I think there may be another difference in physical design of the R&P (ring and pinion......the two components one is discussing when one talks about changing gear ratios).

 

Higher RPM does not necessarily entail worse MPG. Most all production vehicles today are engine, transmission, and diff matched to get the best fuel economy at 55-65 MPH range. This isn't perfect, but in general, it is the rule. When you increase tire size you do decrease RPM at 65 MPH, but you actually lose fuel economy because the engine has to work harder to turn those tires. Regearing will bring the RPMs back to closer to factory economy, but then again, you don't want TOO high of an RPM. What you are looking for is to get your tires and gears into the proper "powerband" for your engine. This is the point where the engine HP versus engine load are closest to factory. That is of course always a challenge, because in general we have a choice in the shorter gear area of either 4.56 or 4.88 gears.

While I have a 1st gen, the general principal remains the same: Keeping your truck in the proper powerband. I have 33 inch tires, and 4.56 gears. I actually get better fuel economy at 55MPH by staying in 5th gear, instead of shifting up into 5th gear! Why? Because in 5th gear, at 55 MPH, I am actually outside of the powerband. Now my engine RPM is fine, and the engine doesn't SOUND like it has any issues, but my fuel economy numbers tell the truth. So be sure to follow the tire and gear calculator that they have here on TW by looking at the top menue, at the bottom of the dropdown of "Mods & Tutorials"

 

Good info from everyone here. OP good choice with picking 4.56 with 35" tires. The formula used to decide what gear ratio to go to is simple. (New tire size) / (Stock tire size) = (Z)x(Stock Gear Ratio) = (Recommended Ratio for stock feel). Ex. 33/30=1.1x3.73=4.103 So I will regear my truck to 4.10's. Oh yeah when putting tire size in your formula, make sure you use inches and not mm.

 

Simply calculating the numbers doesn't tell the whole story. Again there is a huge effect on the additional rotating mass when you're running an 80-90lb wheelset. The engine has to work a lot harder to GET that mass moving, for the same RPM. Generally to retain stock LIKE performance, you should gear a little on the low side (or higher RPM at a given speed) than stock. This HELPS to absorb some of the losses of weight, rolling mass, drag etc...

3.73 to 4.10 is a huge waste on money IMO. An almost completely unnoticed difference and a whole lot of money. You might as well just keep that money for gas.

 

x2

Even going 3.73 to 4.56 isn't a huge difference. Noticeable, yes. But not huge. Big differences start at 4.88, but then you're building for a lot more than just getting back in the power band.

As for parts:

Most basic parts needed for the most basic ratio change are matched ring gear and pinion gear, gear oil (new gearset requires dino oil, not synthetic!), and RTV gasket maker. This approach is if you know FOR SURE that everything is in new condition. (For example: I just replaced my blown 4.56 gears. I did this Most Basic approach because I had replaced everything else [bearings] less than a year prior, so I knew they were 100%......after close inspection, of course!)

The next most basic adds bearings (four sets: 2x carrier bearings, front pinion bearing, rear pinion bearing). This approach is pretty much the standard if you are handing parts to a shop and having them do the work. The assumption is that the shop has the necessary shims to get the numbers and pattern where they need to be.

After that, the next step is for the person doing the work hirself, and adds shims and marking compound. This approach is for the person with the tools and know-how to do a proper setup, and will be doing 100% of the work. Tools needed include a shop press, a very strong air gun, an inch-pound torque wrench, and micrometers. (This is what I bought a year ago, so I had all the shims I needed for when I just recently had to re-do it)

About the only next step that does not include a complete, ready-to-go third member is swapping the carrier. This is usually considered a separate part, because the only reason one would replace the carrier is to add traction-controlling capability. The options are myriad: multiple versions of Limited Slip, multiple versions of Lockers (auto and manual), and of course, the Big Gun: the ARB Air Locker. If one is *also* swapping the carrier, then one would need the full shim/bearing/gearset as well; if one is keeping the current gearset, but swapping only the carrier, then that person would need at least a set of shims, and it would be recommended to also replace the bearings (again, unless they're already near-new).

The top list of parts is really only one part: a complete third member, ready to install. This is for the person who either has no clue how to rebuild a diff, doesn't have a good shop in the area that can rebuild a diff, wants a warranty, or who wants the least downtime. A complete third includes new bearings, shims, matched gearset, and labor of setting it all up 100%. The only work required of the buyer is to install it, add gear oil, and properly break it in*. If the buyer has ever done a complete brake job, then s/he can install a third member.

*= New gears MUST be broken in properly! Install, add oil, then drive gently for 20 miles, then park it overnight (that's an end-of-the-day roundtrip of 10 miles!) (if you touch the diff just after that 20-mile drive, you'll immediately understand why only 20 miles- it gets HOT!). After that initial 20-miles, drive gently for the next 500 miles (NO TOWING!!, and no beating on it...like rock crawling). At 500 miles, change the oil, taking note of major pieces of metal (larger than 1/16"). If no significant bits off metal are found, and the oil doesn't have a severely rank burned smell (you'll know it!), then you're good to go. Keep up regular oil changes every 15k on dino, 30k on synthetic. If you swapped to a Limited Slip carrier, make sure the oil contains friction modifier (Redline synthetic does, Lucas does not).

Again, now is the time to decide if you're going to upgrade the carrier. I would personally recommend it, if your budget allows, even for the street (it's amazing how big a difference in wet-weather driving a simple LSD provides!). Nothing like having to rebuild a diff twice because you changed your mind later.

 

I have the 6speed manual, on 33s and 4.56s. I'm turning 3000rpm at 75mph on the highway and get about 12.5mpg FWIW

 

Cool, thanks for the info. That is right inline with what someone else told me, 2900rpm at 70mph with your same setup. So roughly a 400rpm difference between manual and auto stock, and the rpm difference would increase with lower gearing.

My eventual plan is 4.56 gears and 255/85/16s (33s). Mine is a dclb so only available with an auto. Mine is supercharged as of about 2 hours ago but it will haul a four wheel camper nearly full time, hence the help from gearing.

Most of my gear changes have been similar, 3.73 to 4.56, 4.10 to 4.88 (twice). Roughly 3" tire height change when doing so. Most of my driving is in mountainous terrain, with 55-65mph speed limits. When I jump over to Idaho or Utah there are some stretches at 80mph but for the majority of driving, these gear changes have worked great. Especially off road.

 

Here is what my re-gear/locker costed me.
I am a mt 6 so i run 65 at 2500 and 80 at 3000rpm.
My MPG's are around 13-15 with 315/70/17.


Installed by Yota masters.

Parts:

(1) ARB front locker $949
(1) ARB rear locker $949
(1) Nitro 4.56 front ring and pinion $299
(1) Nitro 4.56 rear ring and pinion $225
(1) Nitro master setup kit front $349
(1) Nitro master setup kit rear $231
(1) Nitro rear solid pinion spacer $55
(1) 80w90 GL5 Gear oil $40

Total parts: $3097 + tax.

Labor:

Remove and reinstall (R&R) front diff $250
Setup front diff with ARB, 4.56, all new bearings $375
R&R rear diff $175
Setup rear diff with ARB, 4.56, all new bearings $275

Total Labor $1075