energy suspension hardware issue

Hello fellow TW enthusiasts,I recently ordered es body mount bushings for my 96 tacoma extended cab and when I got around to doing the tear down of the old bushings I found a bunch of miss matched bolts with stacks of washers etc. (Glad this is my project truck n not the daily) so I went to my local dealership and ordered all new hardware, bolts, washers and nuts.the problem I'm facing now I'd the stock bolts do not fit through the supplied es washers... I double checked part #'s and it is for the tacoma.anyone run into this problem before? Should I just drill out the es washers and move on? Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

 

Will the threads of the bolt not fit through? Or is it the shoulder of the bolt? The kit you have may not be for your truck of the threads don't fit through.

 

The threads will not fit through the washer.the bolts fit through the bushing collars perfectly though. I did double check the part # and it said the kit fit up to a 2000 tacoma? Idk... confused.

 

If the right threads for the body don't fit through the washer, then a bolt whom's threads would fit would be too small to make up. Thats what I'd assUme. But I've been wrong a few times before.

Drilling out a pile of washers would be a PITA. I'd make a jig of some kind if I were you and you chose that route.

 

if there is something special about the washers then just take your time and put each in a vise to drill them out one at a time, don't try stacking them, but first I would make a call to the supplier about it, they may send you the correct washers you need for free.

if it were me I would just go to the hardware store and buy all new correct sized washers before trying to drill them

 

Ok guys thanks for the quick replys.the washers that came with the es kit are a gold color, not sure if that means they are any better than what I could get at the hardware store or not I'll try drilling them out in my vice if I can't figure anything else out.

 

Actually, Keaker, stacking them and drilling them would be the easiest and most efficient. Just lime them up with a bolt in the middle, and either weld a bead down two sides or clamp it in a vise.

 

With my 99 (original owner) everything fit.
However you remedy the situation I can tell you this. The 4 large rear mounts should be the same height and provide equal gap between the cab and frame.

My OEM mounts had sagged significantly. The screwy thing was the OEM rear most mounts had sagged way more than the middles yet the factory pin stripes were still perfectly aligned between the cab and bed. With the ES bushings I had to shim the bed up a tad to get the stripes to match the cab, around 1/8".
Another thing, there is a significant amount of "adjustment" as far as positioning the cab on the frame. Side to side, front to back etc. with implications as to how things like bumpers will align with the cab.

 

well welding a bead, ya that's different, try drilling them just stacked and they will spin.

I have seen people stack washers just compressed in a vice then try to drill them in bulk, not pretty.

still a lot of work to go through when $5 at the hardware store gets you a full set of the correct sized waashers

 

What tard would attempt to drill out a stack of washers? If you put them in a vise put them in so that the vice will clamp the largest OD of them.

 

there are several goobers who would give it a try never thinking it through first, never discount the level of stupidity that can be reached when it comes to guys and power tools lol

so if it doesn't self align to the frame then we are talking about serious double checking of all alignments before tightening anything down then.

on a scale of 1-10 and 10 being let a skilled person do it for you, what would you rate the job of replacing all the body mounts? and then how would you rate the job or replacing all the rear spring bushings?

and if you don't mind, can you give your opinion on if this is something that should be done as a maint item on a very old truck or something you only do if you have issues with sagging bushings?

 

Spring bushings? The steel sleeves of the bushings like to rust solid to the bolts and the spring eyes. Really comes down to the tools at your disposal and how long you fool around with different modes of attack before you just start cutting things. If there is nothing obviously wrong and the bolts are still mostly centered in the rubber, I say move on. Mine are still original despite adding 3 more leafs to the OEM pack 14 years ago. At that time i did pull the bolts and apply some anti seize.


Body mounts/alignment?
It's a pretty simple basic job. Rusty fasteners would be the only thing to complicate things. Just remember to leave the bolts loose but in place on one side while you jack up the cab on the other. That way the cab will not get away from you. Use a generous length of 2x4 scrap between your jack and the cab floor to spread the load. Look on each side of the engine for lines attached to both body and frame and remove a fastener here and there so nothing gets stressed too much. There is just a couple to worry about. If you have an auto, keep an eye on the cooler lines. Don't forget the fuel fill pipe/gas cap or that will turn into a source of embarrassment. I left the steering column shaft, radiator, hoses and shroud in place but removed the lower strip portion of the shroud right below the fan (clips on/off). It takes about 2.5" of space to lift the 4 rear mounts out of the frame holes.

I would not bother with this unless you can see some issues with the stockers and you are at least mildly OCD. Also keep in mind Toyota changed something between 95-00 and 01-04, I don't know if it was an "improvement" or just some dimensional change. The OEM design is sort of destined to sag to some degree due to the cab weight being "suspended" or "hanging" in the rubber (see below). The ES mounts carry the weight by compressing the poly between a giant washer and the big old mount flange. I noticed no change in the "feel" while driving.
Alignment of the body is really just something to keep in mind before tightening things down. One person can easily push the cab around to get it to your liking.

Below is some poop I posted in a fellows build thread. IIRC the conversation was about aftermarket/home fab bumpers fitting differently on different trucks and just how "symmetrical" the cab/frame was.

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"Quoted"

Glad you had a fun time. Did you find the scatter at White Crack?

Here are some things I have come across dealing with frame/body fitment. Not saying it is your issue, just stuff to keep in mind.

As for body/frame/bumper alignment, I agree the frames are weak, flexy and less straight (new) than many folks would think. Additionally the holes for the body mounts are fairly large and allow for considerably more "adjustment" than 5/32". The bed on my 99 had 5 slots and one hole at the driver side front. Up till about 2000 the beds came from the factory with a smaller bed/cab gap, not sure how they remedied this but many of us with the earlier years had to turn the driver side front hole into a slot to end up with about 1" gap, minimizing the fairly common "cab hitting bed" problem.

The holes for the front cab mounts allow for the body to be shifted left and right quite a bit. Then there is the potential for sagging, cracked mounts themselves. The mid and rear OEM cab mounts are a poor design as far as longevity. They are destined to sag/tear at some point because the entire weight of the body is "suspended" or "hanging" by the rubber in the mount. Over time, gravity and the imbalance of weight from front to back wins out. The ES poly mounts have a flange of material between the body and frame held in compression.

About 30k ago, at 200k I installed poly mounts just for the heck of it because it looked as if the rear mounts were sagging and I just had to know what was going on. Below is what came out. It is interesting and somewhat of a mystery why the factory pinstripes on the cab/bed were still perfectly inline. With the poly mounts (uniform height) I ended up needing a couple of shims under the bed to match things back up. There was equal sagging on both sides.

From midway down in the Dirty Pool of visual aids.

Cut away of OEM mount showing how the body weight is suspended so to speak, by the rubber. Sorry I don't have a shot of an ES mount but they are around online.




Mid and rear mounts, rear on the right. The rear has sagged considerably more than the mid. This begs the question "what's going on at the other end of the see saw".




Front mount. The steel sleeve is bolted hard between the two washers that are "molded" to the rubber at the top and bottom. The frame floats between the two rubber halves. This seemed sound but the sleeve had been moving around inside the rubber to the point that a good pile of rubber crumbs fell out when it was pulled apart and there was something going on to distort the whole mount on an angle. Note the diameter of the sleeve compared to the diameter of the hole in the rubber. That's how much rubber had crumbled or rubbed away.



Hope this helps and looking forward to more pics. And agree, that bumper looks great.
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Edit
Just did a little checking and find that on Prerunners from 95-00 the middle and rear mounts are the same part # while the 4wd versions have different part #s for mid and rear. Not sure what the difference is. In the ES kit the mid and rear mounts are the same.
Below is a shot of a 99 4wd rear showing cracks in the rubber just about equal to the sag (direction of yellow arrow). It's the same mount seen on the right in the 2nd pic above.
Also the 5 little "bumps" (red arrow) are not present on the middle mounts.

 

ok so this isn't something to put on the list as a routine replacement due to age/mileage like with the front end parts and such.

I was thinking if these things are going to be dry rot and failing its something to plan on doing but not if its not something you need to do.