How long between oil changes? Is Amsoil good oil to use?

Just got back from "my guy" at Germain Toyota. 10 YZZD3s for $35.60...not bad, and he threw in 10 gaskets. I had forgot Im putting on the Fumoto valve...Ill take the gaskets back to him next time Im out there.

 

Amsoil is great! it's also expensive. I've used mobil1 in both high performance implementations and daily drivers, and it's been great.

This is simply not true, and there's *plenty* of data out there to confirm that not all oil is created equally. A quick visit to bobistheoilguy, or even better yet sending off your own samples to blackstone labs will confirm this. It's not even debatable. Oils use different detergents, and have vastly different viscosity levels. They break down differently after use (meaning they lose lubricity differently), and as such can make a serious difference in the cleanliness and longevity of the motor over thousands of miles; particularly in cases where longer intervals between changes occur. It's obvious that many folks get by following the manual, and I'm not here to dispute that. What I am saying though, is that putting the highest quality oil you can afford in your vehicle **and changing it regularly** gives you your best bet to ensure longevity.

I'm not interested in starting a pissing match about which oils are best. There are a number of great oils available to us and plenty of data out there to help you decide. Rolling the dice with cheaper "good enough" oil on a vehicle this expensive isn't my thing. Your vehicle, your rules though.

 

Go to ANY Mensa gathering on Sunday morning and some of the Mensa folks might not seem so with it...I have been a member of Mensa for about 30 years, used my SAT scores and send a check in once a year. They throw great parties, however.

 

The better deal would be the $12 rebate on 5qts of oil and then get a cheap OEM filter. You can do up to two rebates per address each time they've run it. I've done four of them each time since last year when they started them and have a nice stock pile of Mobil 1 oil built up. I've been using Mobil 1 since the mid 90's and have had some pretty high performance vehicles in that span and some really high mileage vehicles as well. It's the oil I choose for either one.

I'm lucky and my local Toyota dealership charges like $4.10 for a filter w/tax w/o the need to stock pile. I walk in, buy a couple just to have an extra on hand and then walk out. OEM for less than the cost of a Fram plus the o-ring is already lubed so I don't have to stick my finger in the oil to lube up the ring before install. I run a Fumoto valve on all of my vehicles also because it makes being able to take a sample to send off for analysis super easy. Tool-less oil changes are a breeze especially w/the filter location on the 4.0L engine.

 

Replacing your existing, or adding a bypass? I have heard adding a bypass could be too restrictive to the flow. Likewise using a super dense (small micron) filter as well. And while I dont have any "hands on" experience with either, it makes sense...your filter media would have to be more restrictive to collect smaller particles.

 

Adding.

You use a thermostatic sandwich adapter between your full-flow filter. It stays closed while cold for engine warm up, then opens to supply flow to the remote mounted bypass filter.

 

Actual oil analysis can't be done by scratch and sniff, microscope, bright lights or crystal ball.

The properly equipped and operated laboratory is required.

So, does he have documented lab results from an independent lab, or work as an analyst in one?

If not, it's just another opinion.

My opinion is to use a proper lab analysis to base the decision on..........

 

I will look into that source. Thank you.

One thing I do notice though, is it costs me more to test my oil than it does for me to just do an oil change. I get synthetic blend changes done at $20. So why move to changing and testing my oil every 10k if it costs just as much or a bit more than to just change every 5k?
Or does testing only need to be done a singular time or lets say every other year?

 

Im not sure whether he does them himself or not...I didnt see all of his facility, but I did see a lot of bottled samples and reports. His business card says "Certified Toyota Engine Technician" and "Oil analysis services available" towards the bottom.

 

I think there's a little confusion in this thread when it comes to oil analysis.

There's analysis that gives you a read out of metal properties. Used to determine bearing wear etc.

Then there's contamination analysis. I did this in the Navy with hydraulic fluid. It only requires a patch test or a particle counter (I used a HIAC).

Contamination is all we're concerned with in determining oil change intervals.

 

Generally, just once, but I would repeat every 50k miles since your machining specs could wear some. And Id do it again if your driving habits change too.

 

You don't do it every time. You do it a few times when you first buy a vehicle & the information you get from this can be used most likely for the lifespan of the vehicle. $25, $50 or even $100 can save you hundreds (possibly thousands if you keep your vehicles a long time) in materials and the time spent doing the changes. Most importantly it ensures that you aren't throwing away good oil or taking your oil too far beyond it's protection efficiency curve & endangering your engine components. You can then do it occasionally at set mileage marks at a set oil use mileage to make sure the characteristics remain the same over the lifespan of the engine. Adjust OCI as needed.

Keep in mind that the '3k mile OCI' was set by the companies selling the oil. Of course they're going to tell you to do it all the time. The reality is I do my forced induction engines at 5k and my naturally aspirated engines at 10k and that is probably even overly cautious considering I use quality oil and filters.

 

I buy my oil off Amazon which usually beats wally world or comes damn close.

 

Amsoil here is just over $19 CAD liter (about a quart) from the guys who deal it (NAPA). You can sign up as a dealer but it's a pretty big hassle to use oil that isn't any more proven then a top end synthetic like Pennzoil Platnium at 1/3 the price. Why people will shout out to the rafters about amsoil is beyond me, especially when in my area the guys who live and breath the stuff tend to trade there vehicles well before you'd notice a difference between even a synthetic and a dino oil.

 

Our local Walmarts regularly do $23.88 for a 5st jug but you have to pay tax and lug jugs all over the city. Use www.CamelCamelCamel.com and paste the url for Mobil 1 in there and set an alert for $24 (or $25.. whatever price you want) and then wait. I just got a notification that it was at $23.88 again (they regularly match Walmart due to price matching algorithms) but I'm waiting for another rebate as I'm pretty well stocked up. For most that don't have an Amazon facility in-state you'll get the lowest price, save on the tax and have it delivered to your front door a couple of days later for free (if you have Prime).

 

The stuff I buy is $19/gal on Amazon and about $23-24 at wally world. I have prime though so free 2-day shipping.

 

There you go. The key is the oil you use too. All they can tell you is the life left in the sample you send.

So lets say you do a change and use Mobil 1. At 5k you drain and refill with same, and send a sample from the drained to the lab.

They tell you both the wear indicators of your motor and the amount of life left in the oil and how many miles you should reasonably expect, under the same driving conditions to get. Often that will be in the 15k range. So even a 10k OCI can be conservative, leaving you headroom for some tougher-on-the-oil driving w/o needing to change sooner.

I'd only bother with another test say at an additional 50k, or if your use of the vehicle changes dramatically.

As you wade through the other stuff, you'll find that an intermittent filter change, along with a topup of the same oil to compensate for both engine consumption and the new filter (say around a qt. total @ 5k) will give such a boost to the additive package that it extends the life much longer than predicted. But it takes multiple tests to demonstrate that. Good for research for the overall concept, not so good for an individuals wallet unless you are running a high dollar race motor.

Also, even the new SN API rating for dino oil is quite remarkable, nearing synthetic quality in lubrication properties. You might like this http://www.api.org/~/media/files/ce...iesel/publications/mom_guide_english_2013.pdf

We often hear folks say 'what does your owners manual say?'. Well, that's ok until the world moves ahead from your vehicle/manual. Because on an older vehicle, ratings of things that were given can no longer be bought. So it's important to know that the new lubricants are inclusive (better than) what was originally spec'd.

On oil filters. I get the hype over 'I use Toyota only'. However, Toyota doesn't make filters. They only accept the low bidder on one for their specs and have them painted to say Toyota. The key is a quality filter that meets or exceeds the Toyota specs. Many name brands do. A little research will show which ones are very consistent, and you can even find who makes the same filter under different names......... and prices.

As you and others have mentioned, clean oil, the correct API and viscosity are what's important, often more than a brand. However, due to the various additive packages, mixing oils within a running period may not be so good. If you have a motor that needs some addition between OCIs due to consumption, it's best to use what's already in there. OTOH, if you are a qt down in the middle of nowhereville and your buddy has a qt of brand x, you're better off to add that than to run low, and maybe do your change a little sooner.

 

Agreed you have to watch manufacturer hype...lets face it, they are in the oil selling business, but if you look at the data/composition sheets, you will see Amsoil is good stuff, if not even the best.

And true. There are guys here with 300K+ miles on their engines, and have gotten there with Wal-Mart brand dino sludge and Fram filters, but its just human nature to have/own the best of something...it just how we are.

Retail for Amsoil Signature 0w-20 is about $11 a quart here, but I think I can find it cheaper. Think about it this way...getting a 6 quart oil change and filter at one of the "fast-lube" retail places will cost you about $30 every 3k miles and you mostly have no idea of the quality of product/workmanship they are providing, but you dont even have to get out of your car.


Doing it yourself with the $3.50 Toyota filter, and $60 worth of oil every 10k, not only gives you the satisfaction of doing it, and doing it right, you also know youre using the best out there. At least, thats my take on it.

 

Which data sheets though? Amsoils

To be honest Amsoil does a really good job of marketing but there isn't anything third party that would put them even near to being called the best oil. They sell a very hyped up product through limited vendors that push their product ahead of others. It's basically the standard "snake oil" sales tactic and there product is much of the same.

You want a true "race" oil, go to Redline. At least they have third party data backing up their claims rather than stickers and sponsorship's.

I use an oversized Bosch filter, and look up Bosch stuff because they make most of the worlds top end OEM filters for companies like BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc, and Pennzoil Platnium every 5K. That costs me LESS than changing Amsoil every 10K. Want to guess which one would look better to an independent review .

BTW Pennzoil is the only companies that guarantee's that their base stock is 100% synthetic oil derived from natural gas rather than cracking base oils. No one, not Amsoil, Mobil, Redline, or otherwise sticks that claim on the bottle. Check out Bobistheoil guy. Pennzoil consistently tests better when sent off for extended duration oil changes than anything else. Use the best right .

 

But 'the best' based on what and by how much? You're comparison is apples to oranges and helps to justify the steep price of Amsoil to yourself. You likely would never see a difference between it and Mobil 1 which can be had for half the price fairly regularly and if you're a rebate type of person you can get it for about 1/4 the price. To your engine, it likely wouldn't ever look any different so why should it look different to your wallet? I will never understand the desire to waste money on motor oil because of clever marketing.