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Diet Taco... trying to keep things light

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Builds (2005-2015)' started by DVexile, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Apr 14, 2016 at 7:12 PM
    #261
    SonnyBones

    SonnyBones I VOID WARRANTIES

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    I think atm they only offer it in steel.
     
  2. Apr 15, 2016 at 4:48 PM
    #262
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Sorry, took a bit longer to get photos since I didn't get them done before heading out to Death Valley this past week. Anyway I've got them for you now! Hope these are useful, shooting angle was awkward as was lighting.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
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  3. Apr 15, 2016 at 6:43 PM
    #263
    TXTaco13

    TXTaco13 Taco/T4R Enthusiast

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    Getting the rear in aluminum is not really worth it. The rear standard plate is maybe 10 lbs more than the stock bumper/hitch combo. A little extra weight in the rear will give you better traction. If you are putting a bumper in the front, go aluminum there.
     
  4. Apr 15, 2016 at 7:46 PM
    #264
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    I have no need to tow, thus the aluminum rear without a receiver hitch is 37 lbs in place of about 75-80 lbs for the stock bumper and receiver hitch. So better protection for 40 lbs less is a win for my build. Going with the same bumper in steel still without a receiver hitch is 108 lbs. Since I've already got over 500 lbs in the back I see no need to bring another 71 lbs of bumper with me :).

    Now if you do want to tow than that is an interesting question, how much weight savings is there with an equivalent aluminum plus receiver hitch vs. plate? I think the issue here is making sure there is an apples to apples comparison on the receiver hitch. Some plate bumpers have a receiver hitch really not meant to tow much of anything while others incorporate something akin to a class III or class IV.

    The easiest apples to apples comparison is All Pro as they offer nearly identical options in aluminum and steel bumpers that use identical steel receiver hitches. The aluminum bumper with side guards and a steel receiver hitch weighs 69 pounds total while the all steel version weighs 140 pounds total. That's a 71 pound difference which is very significant given the total payload for the truck is less than 1300 lbs. So I'm not really seeing how the rear in aluminum is "not really worth it" in that comparison.

    Alternatively the Pelfreybilt plate bumper with integrated receiver hitch is 85 lbs total, a full 55 lbs lighter than the All Pro option! About 37 lbs of that difference is the lack of rear side protection leaving 18 lbs of difference for the bumper and receiver hitch construction.

    So it depends a bit on your application, but if you want side protection for the rear quarter panels and you want equivalent tow capacity there still is a really significant difference for aluminum vs. steel. The less metal involved with a smaller bumper then naturally the smaller the difference between aluminum and steel.

    Anyway, for my particular build I don't need to tow and I do want quarter panel protection - just yesterday I was coming down a dryfall really wishing I had already ordered and installed the bumper! Fortunately I didn't take out anything important ;)
     
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  5. Apr 15, 2016 at 7:58 PM
    #265
    TXTaco13

    TXTaco13 Taco/T4R Enthusiast

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    I probably should have specified. I was referring to the Pelfreybuilt standard plate bumper, which incorporates the hitch into the bumper. To me it feels slightly heavier than the stock tow hitch/bumper. It's a great bumper, but I can see where you might want protection on the bedsides though. I would be curious how sturdy that thin aluminum would be though.
     
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  6. Apr 15, 2016 at 9:18 PM
    #266
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Yeah, the Pelfreybilt looks to be only 5-10 lbs heavier than the stock bumper and tow package receiver hitch. I totally get what you are saying given you can go to the Pelfreybilt and really be almost at stock weight for a much better off road bumper. The receiver hitch is unrated so you probably wouldn't want to tow 6000 lbs with it, but I'm guessing most folks getting that bumper might tow a small teardrop or something at most and so it seems like a great fit for a lot of off road uses. And compared to say the aluminum All Pro with its steel receiver hitch again the weight increase for going to the Pelfreybilt is relatively small.

    In my specific use case though not wanting a receiver hitch the All Pro aluminum is still quite a bit lighter, actually 40 lbs lighter than stock mostly because I'm will to give up the receiver hitch. But for people considering a tow hitch the Pelfreybilt looks like a great option and probably for most cases is a better choice than the steel All Pro.

    And yes, compared to front aluminum bumpers which beef up the material thickness compared to their steel versions the All Pro aluminum uses relatively thin material. Definitely a durability compromise there. I'm assuming that I'm protecting against bangs during minor rock crawling - i.e. very low speeds and not actually supporting the weight of the vehicle - so that thinner material should be just fine (I hope).
     
  7. Apr 16, 2016 at 9:43 AM
    #267
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Not particularly, though maybe I've missed something specific. I've seen complaints regarding occasional manufacturing delays and poor time estimation typical of small lot production which seems to have been poorly communicated with some customers. And looks like there have been occasional fitment issues including one huge thread with someone going ballistic but All Pro repeatedly offering a refund for a bumper the customer cut up trying to make fit.

    To be honest, with all of these shops I start out assuming there is some chance that what I get is going to have a defect and that I need to check the fit and quality quickly after receipt. If there is something wrong I expect it to get replaced or fixed but my expectation is also that the process may take some time to resolve. Reading through the All Pro complaints, along with many similar threads for other fabricators, it seems often the customer is expecting to get Amazon Prime service on a 150 lb bumper from a very small manufacturing firm. Having bought a lot of small lot stuff over the years I'm used to occasional screw ups with potentially longer resolution and I budget that time into my expectations. Some times persistence is required but remaining polite and understanding the limitations the vendor is operating under seems to always get me to a resolution eventually.

    Thanks for the heads up, is there any particular recent case you were thinking of? I always like to do as much due diligence as I can before spending significant coin on something!
     
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  8. Apr 16, 2016 at 2:44 PM
    #268
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    OK, thanks for the info - it all helps! I'm still evaluating exactly what I'll go with but I'm definitely doing a rear bumper from someone pretty soon.
     
  9. Apr 17, 2016 at 10:26 AM
    #269
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Rear Bumper Downselect

    I'm running out of time living in CA where it is easy to work on the truck (we head back to MD the start of September) so I've really got to finish up the larger mods. The last one remaining is the rear bumper (I'm sticking with stock front for the foreseeable future). There are a lot of choices out there so time to figure out what I'm going to order.

    Steel vs. Aluminum

    For the skid plates I chose aluminum as the weight difference was significant and I don't routinely smash my truck into things. In fact my old unlifted 1992 got by fine with the stock front skid and the only time I hit anything was the rear diff pumpkin at very low speed backing up on one occasion (a stupid occasion in which I knew the obstacle was there and had a passenger who offered to spot but I decided I could eye ball the backing up accurately). I drive very slowly through clearance issues and my skids are meant to handle minimizing damage if a wheel slips when negotiating something at low speed.

    Similarly I don't drag my bumper through things. One of the prime reasons for an aftermarket bumper is to increase clearance - that is to avoid contact in the first place! Anything that ever hits this bumper will be at low speed - wheel slipping over an obstacle, suspension rocking more than expected over an obstacle, slow contact on soft soil in an exit angle situation. So it doesn't seem like steel is necessary strength wise. Keep in mind for plates that aluminum needs to be roughly 50% thicker than steel for the same strength. The rear bumper designs I'm looking at seem to have the aluminum nearly the same thickness or 30% thicker than the steel designs so the overall difference in strength is not extreme. Obviously steel yields in a "nicer" way than aluminum but again I'm really not expecting forces that would yield either material.

    The weight differences however are really significant. There is only one manufacturer I can find that makes the same bumper in both steel and aluminum. All Pro makes a rear steel at 72 pounds and a rear aluminum at 30 pounds. Shaving 42 lbs off of something hanging off the very back of the truck is pretty significant (in Diet Taco terms this really is a "does this bumper make my butt look big" kind of question).

    Note as an aside that given aluminum is 1/3 the density of steel these weights imply the aluminum bumper is "beefed up" by about 25% to account for lower strength of aluminum though of course there likely isn't a uniform increase in thickness. So again, the aluminum is weaker but not by much.

    However, there aren't very many aluminum bumpers offered (All Pro and Aluminess are the only ones I could find) and there is more than one way to make a bumper and trade offs involved.

    Hitch or No Hitch

    I never tow anything nor to I ever plan on towing anything. I've been wanting to get the receiver hitch off my truck for awhile as it is heavy and hangs down low. Some aftermarket bumpers offer receivers behind the license plate to maintain high clearance but there is still the additional weight of supporting that receiver. Some designs the receiver is integrated into the design and not an option while others offer it as an option. In the optional case the weight is about 30 lbs. In an integrated steel bumper assume it is a bit less - 20 to 25. I have no need for this and don't want to haul 25 to 30 lbs on the tail that I don't need.

    Bolt On or Cut

    Some of the more "high clearance" designs involve cutting the bottom of the rear bedsides. This extends the higher clearance closer to the wheels and also extends the underside protection all the way to the wheels. I've got no problems cutting things, but this adds complexity and time to the install. All these designs are steel and so this means adding even more steel and thus weight to the bumper. I doubt I'll encounter situations in which this is necessary though I do like the extended protection for the rear bedsides.

    No Swing Out

    If I'm starting to need to add even more junk hanging off the very back of the truck then I've clearly failed to follow my "diet" in the first place! Yes it looks very expo and makes perfect sense on trucks with useful payload but the Tacoma isn't that (or more specifically, the Tacoma with a 290 lbs Flip-Pac and other gear in it already).

    Comparisons By Weight

    Since one of my primary design requirements is bang for the pound it is work looking at a few options and the trade offs involved.

    • Stock chrome w/receiver
      • Estimated weight 80 lbs (Actual 93 lbs)
      • Very high tow capacity (class IV)
      • Very poor clearance
      • No side protection
      • Can not remove receiver separate from bumper
    • Pelfreybilt Standard Steel
      • 85 lbs
      • Bolt on
      • Integrated receiver, not rated but claimed designed for factory rated tow
      • Good clearance
      • No side protection
    • Pelfreybilt High Clearance Steel
      • 140 lbs
      • Requires bedside cut
      • Integrated receiver
      • Clearance to rear wheel
      • Side protection
    • All Pro Steel
      • 72 lbs
      • Bolt on
      • Can add receiver (I wouldn't) for 32 lbs
      • Good clearance
      • Can add some side protection for 36 lbs (this seems high)
    • All Pro Aluminum
      • 30 lbs
      • Bolt on
      • Can add receiver (I wouldn't) for 32 lbs
      • Good clearance
      • Can add some side protection for 7 lbs (this seems low)

    There are of course many manufactures for steel rear bumpers but their weights all fall in similar ranges. This comparison shows the wide range of weights with a bare-bones no receiver aluminum coming in at 30 lbs and a "high clearance" steel with receiver coming in at 140 lbs!

    Final Choice

    In the end it looks like the All Pro Aluminum offers a product uniquely suited to what I'm looking for. I can completely minimize weight by going with aluminum and no receiver hitch. The strength trade-off against a steel version is not particularly large for my usually low impact usage. Additionally I can get some rear side protection as well.

    There is one oddity and that is the weights for the side protection - they make no sense as listed on the website. For steel the side protection is claimed to weight 36 lbs which seems surprisingly heavy compared to a 72 lbs bumper. For aluminum it is only 7 lbs or one fifth the weight of the steel design! That really can't be correct. I'm guessing a typo someplace or perhaps the aluminum one mistakenly is the weight for just one side piece and not both. I'll be calling All Pro to clarify but after that it looks like this is the bumper I will go with. More clearance, more side protection and lower weight than my stock configuration! It is rare that aftermarket reduces weight but in this case since I'm ditching a receiver that's what ends up happening.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  10. Apr 17, 2016 at 10:39 AM
    #270
    Crom

    Crom Super-Deluxe Member

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    Look forward to your findings with the AP aluminum rear bumper. :)
     
  11. Apr 17, 2016 at 2:24 PM
    #271
    P2W

    P2W Whut?

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  12. Apr 21, 2016 at 9:32 AM
    #272
    tacabode

    tacabode Well-Known Member

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    would you mind sharing a link for that shielding? and how you attached it to the hose clamps? I would like to re-route my exhaust but i refuse to do so without coming up with some sort of shielding for that area
     
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  13. Apr 21, 2016 at 11:39 AM
    #273
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    These are the shields I used:

    http://www.amazon.com/Thermo-Tec-11600-Pipe-Shield/dp/B004PIHZOM

    I used two of these one foot shields rather than a single two foot shield since the shielding does not bend well (or more accurately it is quite flexible but would really bunch up if you were to follow a right angle bend). The hose clamps and spacers are all included in the kit so it is really straight forward to install. The shielding is already attached to metal spacers and the hose clamps fit through the bottom of the spacers to hold everything onto the pipe.
     
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  14. Apr 21, 2016 at 11:56 AM
    #274
    Bman4X5

    Bman4X5 There is no substitute for square inches.

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    Just ordered two. Thanks for the link Ken. I may not be so enthusiastic when I'm halfway through removing my transfer skid to do the install!
     
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  15. Apr 26, 2016 at 7:28 AM
    #275
    dlawrence529

    dlawrence529 Well-Known Member

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    Nice build. I was just curious if you ever tried the 42mm replacement dome light bulb (Super Bright LEDs 4210-CWHP6-V2)? I made the same mistake of buying the 44mm T-1 type bulb (Super Bright LEDs 4410-CW9) and the light it produces looks horrible.
     
  16. Apr 26, 2016 at 7:53 AM
    #276
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Actually I did just recently and it had its own problem - a rather bad one it turns out :mad:

    That bulb has numerous exposed conductors on the back of it. In the picture of the bulb you can see a few capacitors sticking off the backside. The leads for those capacitors as well as a number of other surface mount components are all exposed. The Tacoma dome light socket has a lot of extra metal forming the clips to hold the bulb. End result was with the new 42mm bulb plugged in there were components on the back shorted out which went up in a whiff of smoke as soon as I turned on the dome light to test it. Bulb toast, but truck just fine - fuse didn't blow either.

    I had no time to evaluate the bulb in its short few second of operation. The fit was still not perfect but a lot better than the 44mm bulb besides the shorting out problem. In theory one could put some sort of insulator on the back of this bulb to cover the exposed conductors and prevent a short from happening.

    At this point I've got the 44mm bulb with the ugly green tint back in there and am not sure what my next step will be. I might reorder the same 42mm bulb and try to put an insulator on the back prior to installing or I might just live with the 44mm bulb as is.

    Thanks for asking the question, I meant to post about the new bulb but I installed it (and burned it up) right before a camping trip and forgot. I'm going to edit the original post to link to this report as well.
     
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  17. Apr 26, 2016 at 10:34 AM
    #277
    Crom

    Crom Super-Deluxe Member

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  18. Apr 26, 2016 at 12:30 PM
    #278
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Awesome, thanks! Just added to my Amazon cart as I've got an order going together already. Looks like it is a chip LED with proper insulating and should have a better CRI than the one I've got in there right now.
     
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  19. Apr 27, 2016 at 7:34 AM
    #279
    dlawrence529

    dlawrence529 Well-Known Member

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  20. May 1, 2016 at 10:11 PM
    #280
    DVexile

    DVexile [OP] Exiled to the East

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    Mojave Road - Day 1
    April 2016

    Doing the whole Mojave Road has been on the to do list for a long time. I've done a number of sections of it in my old truck, but probably no more than a third total. I missed being able to make a trip that @Crom put together but still wanted to get it done this year before it got too hot. So the day after Crom's crew got off the road I started my trip on a Monday in early April.

    Sunday I got the truck fully provisioned and I left Pasadena at 5:20AM. I made a stop at a Home Depot nearby to pick up some Reflectix insulation - looks like Mylar covered bubble wrap - because I was trying out dry ice in the cooler this time. You need to keep most of the cooler contents insulated from the dry ice, it is way too cold. I put a remote temperature sensor in the food tray and that morning it was at 18F - glad I didn't have any sodas in there!

    Breakfast just over the Cajon Pass in Hesperia and a few last snacks to round out the provisioning in Barstow. I decided to drive Old Route 66 instead of the I-40 for a bit but around Hector Road it got extremely rough. After nine miles of that another sign warned of nine more and I decided to get back on the I-40 instead. And actually that was fine, not much truck traffic. The I-40 is much nicer driving than the I-15 to the north or the I-10 to the south.

    I took some time to finally nail down my odometer and speedometer errors from the increased tire size. Results were -3.5% for the odometer and -1.5% for the speedometer. Knowing the odometer error was going to be useful as I had the Mojave Road Guide with me which logs junctions and points of interest in tenths of a mile.

    I detoured just a little to the north to Goffs in order to stop by the Goffs Schoolhouse which is a delightful museum run by the Mojave Desert Heritage and Cultural Association. It happens to be open on Mondays as well as the weekends and they also have a nice collection of old mining and railroad equipment outside. Anyone who loves the desert should stop by and visit sometime when the museum is open if they are driving along the I-40. It is only a few miles out of the way and as a side benefit there is some great train watching along that section of road too.

    Gassed up in Needles and then drove north to Avi where I topped off the tank one last time. Like the moron that I am I actually forgot to fill my jerry can in Avi. Not strictly necessary, but would add some comfort. There are many places to bail out along the road so if the gas gauge gets to low it is easy to exit for more gas but I'd prefer to stay on the road the whole way.

    From Avi I followed the excellent instructions in the road guide to get to the start of the trail right on the edge of the Colorado.

    [​IMG]
    Start of the Mojave Road
    After a snack and airing down I started the trip at 12:30. I won't give a long road report here as the Mojave Road Guide already does a far better job than me. Definitely get the guide and read it if you do the road yourself, besides helping you stay on the trail it has lots of interesting historical information. Right at the start here you negotiate some agricultural fields and indeed hundreds of years ago there would have also been agriculture here as the Colorado flood plain was used for agriculture by the Native Americans in this region.

    This first section was a gentle climb out of the valley of the Colorado and up to the north of the Dead Mountains. Looking behind I could see the green valley watered by the Colorado getting more and more distant until it disappeared behind the low ridges and hills that define the washes draining the northern Dead Mountains.

    [​IMG]
    Climbing away from the Colorado
    At just a little under seven miles I made my first stop to walk down wash to Granite Spring. There is some water here and a few healthy trees. It was a warm afternoon and the water brought the sound of many buzzing insects. There are suppose to be petroglyphs here though I didn't see them nor make much of an effort to find them. A bit further along the road you can stop and hike to Picture Canyon for more petroglyphs but because it was warm and I was actually quite tired after not sleeping well the weekend before I decided to just press on.

    Soon I crested the pass between the Dead Mountains to the south and the Newberry Mountains to the north. Off in the distance to the west I could see Piute Gorge in the haze and the wavy Mojave Road leading up to it. There were still a bit more than ten road miles to get to Fort Piute.

    [​IMG]
    Piute Gorge aligned with Table Top Mountain in the distance
    From here the road descends into the Piute Valley and crosses US-95. The drive was uneventful and soon I was getting close to Fort Piute. Behind me the Mojave Road rolled on its way back over the pass to the Colorado.

    [​IMG]
    Looking back east just before Fort Piute
    I arrived at Fort Piute and had a snack sitting on the low remaining wall of the old fort. So far I hadn't seen anyone else on the road and I had the fort to myself. I had actually been to Fort Piute before, but the previous time had driven to the top of the gorge from the west and hiked down the gorge to the fort. There is clearly plenty of water here with many large trees. It is obvious why this was an important point along the road. After my snack I hiked up a nearby ridge for a better shot of the remains of the fort and the riparian environment behind it.

    [​IMG]
    Fort Piute
    There were plenty of cactus in bloom around here as well and the hillside I walked up required some careful negotiation to not get skewered by cholla. Finally at around 4 pm it was time to leave. A last walk near the parking area did reveal that even with water nearby the desert must be a hard place for wildlife to live.

    [​IMG]
    Nearby water was not enough
    From here the road back tracks about two miles and then takes a short detour to the south away from the historical route of the wagon road up Piute Gorge. Even this detour had a nasty spot with the road heavily eroded resulting in an unhappy off camber maneuver at the edge of a drop off. It would appear just a few days after my passing some rainstorms eroded this point even more and the park service has closed this section of road until it can be repaired.

    By 4:40 I was back at the top of the gorge and now headed just a bit north off the Mojave Road to find a campsite on the edge of Piute Gorge itself. There are number of nice turnouts to camp all with spectacular views. The hike down into the gorge from here is well worth it, but having done it twice before and being very tired I decided for a late afternoon nap instead. I did manage to wake up just before sunset to take one last photo for the day.

    [​IMG]
    Camp on the rim of Piute Gorge
    I had dinner and afterward since the sky was clear and there was no moon at all I took out a newly acquired 5" telescope for some observing. This telescope (a 127mm Mak from Orion) is a nice modest size that takes up just the foot well where my daughter's car seat goes. It is small enough to mount on my photography tripod though I do use a compact alt-az mount for the telescope rather than the ball-head I use for my camera. I wouldn't want anything bigger as this is just at the limit of stability and when the wind blew things moved too much at high magnification. I checked out the Orion Nebula which was of course spectacular and hunted down a few galaxies as well. Jupiter was up though the seeing not particularly great. The skies here were very dark though Las Vegas and Laughlin both blighted part of the horizon with their obnoxious light pollution. I would have observed all night but by 11:30 I was exhausted and climbed into the Flip Pac for some well deserved sleep.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021

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