System upgrade advice

Thanks for all the help that i have received on here.I went to a shop for them to look at some upgrades in my tacoma,I have the focal 165A component and coax in the truck now,They said i would like the hertz high energy 165.4 run off the jx 400/4 running active with no crossovers,They also suggested i go with the DQ61 for my crossover settings,I have a 10" jl tw 3 in my truck now...I got to reading online and it looks like the DQ 61 crossover is just for factory headnunits?I did tell them i had a pioneer headunit...I would like to have the hertz but it looks like they cost $500 or more...I was thinking and i want your advice on this...Running the focals i have now active on the jx 400/4 and maybe get the kicker front row for my crossover settings.Then upgrade the 4 gauge wire under the hood with a 2 gauge with a circuit breaker and 4 gauge power and ground distro block for my sub and door speaker amp?I have the jl 500/1 on the 10 tw3....Im just not sure why they said i could use the DQ 61..lol Maybe i can use it and im just not sure how it's wired...I think this way would maybe save me some money on equipment i have now.

 

If your going to make the jump to running active and interested in tuning I would recommend a Digital Sound Processor such as the minidsp c-dsp(https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/c-dsp-6x8) over the DQ61 or kicker front row. For less than $400 you can get the DSP and the USB mic that they sell. I would run the Focals active and if your not happy with them, then look at replacing speakers. The nice thing about running an active system you don't have to buy the same brand mid-basses and tweeters(Although they need to match up well as far as performance goes) and raw drivers are usually cheaper to buy since your not paying for the crossover that's usually included in a car audio set. You don't even need car audio speakers. I ran home audio drivers. Since you have the pioneer headunit the DQ61 seems like their trying to sell you something you don't need or are better spending you money somewhere else(DSP, deadening, power upgrades).

 

Thanks!! they said they messed up..it was the AudioControl DQDX...thanks for helping! anything on the market u like now for door speakers?

 

I would still recommend the miniDSP over the audiocontrol DQDX. Not that the audiocontrol is bad. The miniDSP just does a lot more. If you do plan to run the speakers active and tune with a DSP and mic be prepared to do a lot of reading and learning and spending many hours tuning. While tuning isn't necessarily hard it's easy to do it wrong. I have a baseline on one of my presets right now and I will work on a new tune from that to another preset and then I can switch between the two while listening. There's many times after spending an hour or so, I'll compare the two and think WTF this sounds like crap!

My speaker experience is pretty limited so that might be a better answer from someone else for recommendations. But I would run your Focals first before putting money into anything else.

Here's my build.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/sound-upgrade-help-build-log.401367/
It's still very much a work in progress. Still need to add a sub. I haven't had much time to spend tuning and getting it dialed in but overall it still sounds great.

 

If you mentioned this I missed it, but has the truck been treated with deadener/dampers? You'll see the single largest improvement there...all things held equal. Deadening just the doors, if they aren't treated, will be an amazing difference. Treated doors can make a really cheap speaker sound like a much nicer speaker.

 

Yes it has deadner installed on the back wall and doors.....Since im running 4 gauge under the hood and to my amps...when i get the jx 400/4 ,Mini dsp and the jx 500/1 do i need to upgrade my wire under the hood to a 1 or 0 gauge?

 

I think I missed it before, but here's one more vote to try the Focals active first. And one more for choosing raw drivers over kits. I just bought some Silver Flute W14 mids from Madisound for $20/each. They're supossedly quite nice. I can't wait to see!

On your wiring I have no idea. What sort of power are we talking? I'm not terribly familiar with JL's amp offerings or how you plan to wire things.

 

500 watts rms on the jl sub and around 75 to 80 watts rms on the 4 channel going to the tweeter and front door speakers...i have an 80 amp fuse now under the hood.

 

According to Crutchfield's chart, 4 ga size is fine. The fuse - maybe not. Although I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you to go bigger. I think if I were approaching a kilowat I'd church it up myself.

 

Well here is where im kind of stuck..The 4 channel i have now is Soundstream PN4.520D it's a good and and puts out 100 watts x 4..Should i just stick with that or get the jx 400/4D jl audio amp?I guess with anyone i can run active.

 

Thatnks for the chart!

 

Some people don't think Class D amps sound that great for anything other than subwoofers. I personally don't have the experience with them to make that judgement, but it may be worth a little research on your part. As for me I won't use one for anything much over 100 Hz. I plan to add a Class D soon, but for sub duty only...A/B only up front. Technical explanations and opinions galore await you, but I'm not going there

 

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44214_JL-Audio-Slash-300-4v3.html do you mean like this amp A/B

 

Not sure what the RIPS thing is all about, but along those lines yeah. Or something like this if you don't wanna drop so much coin.

 

If the soundstream has been working fine, then I wouldn't bother switching it out. Tuning an active system is work enough and changing equipment at the same time would just make things more complicated. I'd run with the soundstream, and if you find it's noisy or giving you problems, then look for a replacement.

You should also be fine with 4ga wire for now. I'd only switch it out if you know for certain that a power upgrade is coming. Otherwise, save your money for other areas (processor or speakers). Class D amps are very efficient. I run an Audison LRx 5.1k (~1500 Watts peak) with 4ga and haven't had any issues. The amp's internal 100A fuse further helped me determine that 2ga wasn't necessary.

 

But has the SS been working fine? Maybe that's the problem or part of it. I'm with ya - I'd try active with the SS or whatever equipment I had on hand first, but I'm still skeptical of cheaper Class D full-range...particularly this one. I can't find specs on it anywhere beyond power rating. If this is one of the older designs, it's worth considering that acoustic transparency may not be its strong suit.

 

Don't want to start a debate, but I personally doubt buy into the idea that Class D is inferior to A or AB. I say this for a couple of reasons:

a. There are several SQ competitors who have done extremely well with Class D amps.

b. Very few people (if any at all) could distinguish the difference between a D or A/AB in a car audio application. The vehicle cabin is by far the worst environment for music listening (poor speaker placement, reflections galore), thus, there are many other factors contributing to a less-than-pleasing listening experience besides the amp.

Sure there's varying levels of quality from suppliers, but that's independent of the amp topology. I haven't read great things about soundstream lately, but honestly, I haven't been looking. IMO there's many other companies out there that have good reputations and products at a reasonable price. But, if I owned a soundstream and it has been serving me fine, then I'd stick with it.

 

Agreed - not the place for this debate. Even Steve Mantz claims that [his] Class D amps are 'there'...keeping in mind that he sells them. That said, some designs, maybe even most, haven't overcome the design limitations which sparked this discussion in the first place. Fishing out one of those good designs from all the not so good ones will require some effort. Or not. Just hit up yer favorite audio store & use the switcher in the demo room to try different amps on the same speakers & head unit if the shop is capable.

I'd love to try out one of Zed's Mikro amps. I'd be willing to bet they're pretty damn good.

 

ALL i will say is those switch boards are a hoax. I hate it when people think listening to them in that environment and setup is going to be an indication of how they sound in a vehicle. They tune and run those switchboards SPECIFICALLY How they want them to sound to get a bias on what they want you to buy.

Its like taking a focal speaker and running it active sound amazing and then comparing it to a Hertz of equal quality, price point and category and running it passive and allowing you to come to the conclusion that the FOCAL sounds That much better.....

BTW that was just a hypothetical

 

Interesting idea although I can't think of a more practical way to compare 2 things without trying both in the actual environment...if you aren't subject to shop trickery. A buddy of mine, when he owned his shop, built his soundroom to mimic an automotive environment as closely as he could. It had nice Recaro seats, a low ceiling, close walls and was soundproofed. I've never seen that since. If there was any trickery in the switcher I never knew about it. And I helped build that room.

Good to know this happens though. Err not good, but good to know about it. Not that any of the shops around here have anything I wanna buy