boostedka's Turbo 3RZ Tacoma

Did you install a GM knock sensor? If so, which did you use? I have seen some us the SU4669 and others use the SU1075.

 

I have not yet. That's on the list to do before I add more boost. I just hate going on to ct because that site is so slow from all the ads.

 

I know what you mean. It's gotten though to navigate through, especially on a phone. Below is a post I found from Dick4x4 on there that talks about his findings. He went with the 1075 and I know Kurt on there went with a 4669. Both with positive results. I'm not sure what harness to use to wire it in. I'm guessing I can just buy a matching GM harness and just cut the plug off and solder it onto the stock wiring.

Taken from Customtacos:
Ok, here is the new uptade. Most of the informations will come from the e-mail I receive from the engineer at Wells but I will also include confirmed information that I catched from different forums and technical pages.


I decided to include informations about the 5VZ engine. Because the problem is not related to the 2RZ/3RZ only I tough 5VZ folks would like to know also. Even the crowd of the 3S-GTE could like to hear about as there are a lot of features our engine management seems to share... as it is the knock failure problem at high boost. Interesting point is the 3S-GTE is boosted from Toyota and the sensor will hold until too much boost at approx 15-17 psi I think I've red. Then happen an higher than normal detonations event followed by a faulty/broken sensor... and you are back to the beginning.


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The replacement sensors on the market are designed as per the original Matsu****a sensors. As mentionned in the Toyota service book, the nominal frequency is 6.6khz.


GM sensors are as per their design, larger ans heavier. It's the reason why they last longer and hold better the abuse.


Most of the GM resonant sensors, like 99% are 5.2Khz, 6.0Khz or 7.0Khz. (Just a personnal note, that same information is shared for many years by J&S Safeguard through various forums. Themselves told to have received that information directly from GM engineers during the '90 years. So you can rely on that)


One another personnal note, the link I posted (mtg-technologies) previously where you see GM sensors analysed to find resonance must be taken with a grain of salt. The result in about every case is twice the values they should be and it's not normal. Only the Toyota sensor had a value in the range it should.


Important note on the mounting.


The Toyota sensors needs to be threaded all the way to the block resting surface to surface in order to work properly.


The GM sensors must NOT rest on the block. We could say the bottom part of the sensor is where the diaphragm is located. If your sensor rest on it, it won't work properly. GM sensors need to hang by the threads. (more on this few lines below)


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Ok lets speak at what interest us the most, replacement sensor.


*2RZ/3RZ (Toyota 6.6Khz nominal frequency) (Theorical frequency 6.2Khz)
*5VZ (Toyota 7.1Khz nominal frequency) (Theorical frequency 6.1Khz)
*3S-GTE (Theorical frequency 6.66Khz) I would guess Toyota would call for a 7khz-7.2khz sensor as they seem to be few hundreds over the theorical knock frequency value but I have not the Toyota data on this.


The frequency given by Toyota should be the one to look for as the nominal sensor frequency because it's the frequency at which they program the ECU to receive the waveform (voltage) . But because no sensors are dead on, having the theorical knock frequency may help to choose between one or another sensor.


There is two sensors that stand out.


The SU1075 that is the one for the Pontiac Sunfire/ Chevrolet Cavalier. Designed to have a nominal frequency of 7.0Khz. Will work well for anything between 6.6Khz-7.4Khz.


The thread on the SU1075 is direct fit

$13 M12x1.25 mm Self-Locking Nylon Insert Hex Lock Nuts, Pack of 6

M12x1.25 but with a taper thread design. That is a good thing because as I said earlier, you don't want the bottom of the sensor to be touching the block. Because of that, the torque spec is very less critical in the assembly. You just have to be sure it's tight. (Ideal thread between 2/3-3/4 of all threads)


The SU1075 have a internal resistor the OEM Toyota doesn't have. (according of my personal analisys to the mtg graph) it should give the signal less amplitude (voltage). That could actually be a good thing as it would be close to the Toyota sensors range. GM sensors give usually quite higher voltage.


Based on that I would say SU1075 for
2RZ/3RZ: Good choice
5VZ: Very good choice (if the actual body fits in the allowed space)
3S-GTE: Good choice, but would be nice to confirm with the Toyota manual shop




One other sensor that could be taken into consideration is the SU4669 deisgned for other GM applications. Designed with 6Khz nominal frequency will work well for anything between 5.6Khz-6.4Khz)


Same thread configuration M15x1.25 taper that you don't want to thread all the way to the block.


I don't have the information if there is an internal resistor in it compared to Toyota.


So based on that I would say the SU4669 for:
2RZ-3RZ: Good choice, considering you are closer to the theorical detonation frequency
5VZ: Should work but SU1075 is a better choice and the nominal is far from what Toyota is asking for.
3S-GTE: Should work but SU1075 seems to be a better choice.




I hope you enjoyed the reading. I can't warranty the result on your particular engines and setup but there is a ton load of reading and searches behind that. At least if you choose to use a GM sensor on your motor, you will know what are the parameters that are inline instead of just guessing stuff.


For my case, now I'm a lot more confortable using a SU1075 for my build.


If you have any question more or less technical about knock system and sensors don't hesitate while it's fresh on my mind.


Thanks!

 

Thanks I'm going to copy this for reference. I'm pretty sure I can find a pigtail connector on summit racing. Also if I can remember my ct account I'll pm Kirk about the knock sensor because I want to wire it also to my mapecu3 for logging. When I jump back to this motor tuning. I'm going to nail out a bunch of stuff on the engine all at once.

Here is what mapecu says to use to read knock. Pretty sure the module can read a SU1075 or SU4669. The knock sensor they use is for a ls1

 

That's looks like pretty simple way to log knock signals. I may do that if I end up going with the mapecu. I wound up getting the 1075 knock sensor. I was able to get both the sensor and the pigtail from Autozone. The duralast sensor is manufactured by wells just as most others are. I think it was around $40 for the plug and sensor. Now I just need to time to install it.

 

Is the pigtail the same as the linked one I gave you? Or maybe you could give me the auto zone part #. The part store guys all snort glue I think.

 

Here's a pic of the part numbers on the side of the boxes. The box on the right is the pigtail

 

This is awesome!

 

Thanks man

 

Been thinking the last few weeks. Might be slowly making the jump to a Megasquirt MS3 once I beef up everything under the hood.

 

It's funny you mention that. I was actually PM'ing with Kurt last week and he has me wanting to go that way as well. I came across http://www.2rzturbo.net/?p=77 and he pretty much lays it all out. Kurt is also doing the same with his build http://www.customtacos.com/forum/94-build-threads/163041-2002-tacoma-3rz-turbo-build-7.html. After researching it this last week, it seems like it's much more straight forward than the older DIY kits now that they sell the assembled units, and they more features than even the SPrint 500. I'm thinking about doing it this summer, maybe sooner if I can find the time.

 

My buddy a few weeks ago was like I thought you were on a megasquirt. That got me thinking. I found all that documentation and was like why go the expensive haltech way when I could basically have the ultimate piggyback standalone that is geared towards people who like doing their own tuning. What started it was talking to you about the maf elimination and a lot of people say it makes your throttle response very sluggish and people end up going back to maf. The info for these motors is incredible.

 

It was wild seeing you and kurt talking about it a week later. Maybe my buddy was talking on CT at the same time the week before.

 

Subd af

 

Just noticed you have Icons in the front, what spring rate are they and how do they ride with a 4cyl truck. I have a set I've been sitting on and I have no clue if I should swap to lighter coils first or just enjoy them with the 650lb coils they have.

 

I have the 650 springs they came with. I originally had them on my previous Tacoma that was V6 4wd. I was hesitant to put them on this truck like you're saying. I just figured I'd try it out. I've liked them a lot. I honestly can't tell much of a difference between the two trucks. I ran them at first w 31" Kelly TSR's set at 1.5" then bumped them up for the 33s and put on the uni balls. The new tires are what stiffened up the ride more than anything else.

 

Do you think if I put an intercooler behind the grill and moved the stuff in the way like the horns and maybe mounts that hold the grill in it would work?

Not sure if it would interfere with the radiator cooling the engine....

Pretty much my only problem is finding the right turbo. No turbonetics; so precision, gerret, or borgwarner....

 

It should work. Idk for sure, but I know I've seen quite a few set ups online run that way so I'm assuming it'll still give adequate radiator air flow. What reason are you wanting to put behind the grill?

 

Read up online on top mount intercoolers and they aren't as good. The engine takes a bit of the cooling away

 

I guess I meant as opposed to behind the bumper. Do you have a winch mounted in there?