I want to fit a 35" spare while keeping mild performance in mind. Thoughts/Ideas?

Whats up TW!

I've been thinking about this for some time and i'd like to collect some different opinions on the matter at hand. Hopefully we can have an intellectual conversation about this and I'm hoping that some more experience off-roaders or maybe even some who understand the math a bit more than I do can chime in. I couldn't really decide how to categorize this thread so, moderators, please feel free to move it to a better location if need be.

I've been looking into ways to store a 35" spare tire effectively that will optimize my storage space while keeping suspension performance in mind. Currently, I have 33" tires and I just throw my spare into the bed of the truck when we are going on trips or a day on the dirt. Obviously, there are some issues with this system such as I don't carry a spare around with me when I DD in addition to the space I loose when my spare is in the bed.

Originally, I was fully sold on the rear swing out option and placing my spare on the rear bumper, however, the more I think about it the less appealing this option gets. This is going to be the easiest solution to my problem but that's not a good enough reason IMO. My main concern with setup is the leverage factor that comes into play in regards to suspension and weight distribution. Hear me out...

I'm going to try to elaborate on this idea using a more simple analogy that everyone has likely experienced. We all know that 5 lbs is not that much weight. We can hold 5 lbs effectively and for long periods of time without issue. Now take that 5 lbs and hold it at arms length away from your body. The amount of effort that we must give is significantly increased. Additionally, the length of time that we can maintain his position is significantly decreased. In my laymen's terms, I'd say that's the basis of leverage in physics. Now take this concept and make the item 200 lbs and apply the theory to the back of the vehicle.

I feel that vehicle performance will greatly suffer from an additional 200 lbs on the furthest point possible away from the axle. I understand that everyone and their mom has done it, however, did we really think it through or did it just become a fad? In order to support this amount of weight as well as the assload of other gear/equipment we take on trips, the spring rate of the vehicle will have to be increased as well as the shock valving. This also doesn't seem like the ideal solution for any serious wheeling, whether it be slower crawling or higher speed driving.

I also understand that every build is different and that must be taken into consideration. There are plenty of serious drivers out there who really use their vehicle with a swing out and no issues. Personally, I enjoy a variety of driving and living in SoCal allows me to explore many different types of terrain. The "jack of all trades, master of none" idea so, what are the pros/cons of the many other options out there to optimize storage space while trying to keep the weight of the vehicle as balanced as possible?

These are the 3 options that are most appealing to me. Obviously, I'm not the originator of these ideas but these are the closest examples I could find.
Rear bumper w/ swingout (least appealing)


Tire mounted into bed (most appealing, most work )
Shoutout to @SCSPerformance for having an absolutely beautiful and original truck (only Tacoma I've seen with a tire sunk into the bed)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BYjGPXllcZT/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

Tail gate option
Also a shoutout to Alex (I don't know your TW tag) for doing something different as well.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiEz-c0HyP1/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

Here's what I did. Not the best pic of it.

The tire hinges up to gain access to more storage under the front of it.

 

I feel like a 35 would still take up a fair amount of space, even at an angle. I do like the idea of using a hinge system to have some flexibility. The limitation on my setup is my RTT and bed bars. When I’m not using the RTT I just stand the tire up vertically along the front bedside and strap it down. Works well and optimizes space/weight distribution but I can’t do that when we use the RTT.

#exporigissues

 

I've been through four or five different spare tire carrier designs. If you look in my build thread you will see some of them (some of the earlier designs' photos may be lost due to photobucket's little stunt of not supporting forum postings that they pulled a year ago).

The most efficient I have found so far has been the vertical tire gate/carrier. I have recently swapped over from 35"x12.5" tires to 285/75R16 (~33.8"x11.5") and I am already planning towards a new tire carrier design. I would like something that gives me a folding tailgate so that I can haul dirt bikes in the bed of the truck again.

The vertical tire gate is definitely the most space efficient. Weight over the ass end of the truck isn't a bad thing if your suspension is set up for it - look at trophy trucks, they use their spare tires to balance weight front to rear. The vertical design tends to be hard on the mounting points when driving aggressively, though.

 

As far as your bed bars and rtt setup I don't know if this would work. I planned it in anticipation of some day building a rack for a rtt that for over the tire as is. It does still take up about 1/2 the bed space along with the bedcage, but, I'm a shortbed and can still fit my rtic 65 cooler, spare parts bin, and all my camping gear in the bed.

 

My next camping/multipurpose truck won't have a swing out, it'll have a custom as-high-as-you-can-get-clearance super light weight tube bumper for a multitude of reasons. As you know you can set up your valving and springs to hold the weight but as you already know you're going to be making compromises in doing so, potentially making sacrifices you might not like right off the bat, or sacrifices you will get tired of after several trips. My springs are a higher rate than I need both front and rear (front because of limited rate availability, rear because....fuck deaver and wanting the piston to sit in a usable area of the bypass) so my truck is little rough on pavement, even with the compression bypasses open completely/rebound closed its still rougher than I want and there doesn't appear to be anything I can do about it aside from making drastic changes in the suspension and potentially sacrificing handling/performance while driving through the desert.

As I get more and more miles of dirt under my truck I get more convinced that one day I'm going to look in my rear view mirror and the swing gate is just going to be gone. Its still holding strong after thousands of miles of dirt, but I don't think that these single shear spindles are going to last forever on abused trucks.

Lets be serious here, for most people the extra leverage isn't going to do anything. Even among those of us that have access to the desert most people drive like too big of pussies for it to matter, but if you're putting thought into it, you probably are one of those that it will matter. Crawling it wouldn't really matter though and as far as my experience goes, with our trucks and their long ass wheel base, ride height helps significantly more than travel,valving or anything else suspension wise. I've dicked around with my ride height going from almost all up travel to the recommended 60%-40% split and I get stuck way less with the front end lifted up high. Having heavy duty springs keep your frame out of the rocks helps a shit load with tall ledges.

I like what the SCS truck has, I'll probably do the same with my next truck..........or if my swing gate breaks off before I retire the truck from camping trips. The other thing I was thinking about doing with going with a bedrack with a "shelf" below the top of the rack for spare tire storage. It would raise COG but would still make the tire easy-ish to get out when you need it. You can also sit it vertically against the front of the bed if you don't have anything in the way, I don't see a whole lot of people doing this but it would take up the least space and center the weight better (front/rear) than the other methods (if that's one of your goals)

I currently carry an extra spare laying down in my bed and it doesn't seem to take up too much space, its kind of annoying but I work around it when storing things on trips.



Welcome to the realities of "does everything, sucks at everything" trucks

 

I'm assuming you mean a tail gate replacement kind of the like the 3rd option in the OP?

I'll definitely take a look at your build and see what you've done. You do have a point about TT though. I've played with lots of desert trucks and they tend to run the spares at the very back. I've always wondered if its for weight distribution or ease of access though. My main concern with a tailgate option is how to build it structurally sound without relying on the bedsides. The bedsides of these truck are extremely weak and thin metal so I'd have to be careful trying to add a bunch of weight without it being supported.

I'm sure I could build it to work with the RTT height but there are other variables I would be concerned about. Mainly accessing the tire when needed. Trying to haul a 100 lbs tire off its mount while limited by height doesn't sound fun. I could go with a higher bed rack, however, I've never been a fan due to he high center of gravity and the giant kite that sits on top of the truck for long distance trips.

 

Yep, my vertical tire carrier has been hell on my bedsides.

 

Its only a 265, but you get the idea.

 

That last statement couldn't be closer to the truth. My go to statement for this build has been "it does a little of everything, but it does nothing really well." It's like that with everything i've experienced though. When I worked in the firearm industry I had customers come in all of the time looking for "that gun" that did everything you needed really well. My blank face response is/was, "it doesn't work like that."

I agree with all your points. I've seen some pictures of swing outs that have fallen off and the horror stories with them. If I went with the swing out I would ABSOLUTELY get a dual, simply to do my best at spreading the weight/leverage the spindles will undergo but I'm still not sold on that option.

You're also right in saying for most people it won't matter. Everyone has their comfort level and goals and that's great, but I was raised in the desert on 2 and 4 wheels and I have a really hard time letting off the throttle. The crawling is newer to me but I believe you when you say ride height is more important. I have friends on the east coast that have removed their shocks to go crawling so they don't limit travel. Not really my style but I guess it works in theory.

Vin's truck is by far my favorite option. It's the most amount of work but I think it would give the best of everything. I'd be willing to cut into my truck to make it work though. I'm beyond the point of no return. I've contemplated the tire shelf concept. The problem with my specific setup is the bed bar height. I like the RTT to not sit higher than cab/roof rack height for COG and wind, but a 12.5" tire would still take up a lot of room without going with taller bars. I'll have to take measurements tomorrow so we can have a better idea of numbers. I currently run my spare tire against the front bedside and I'm not unhappy with it. Right now im just using a ratchet strap, which isn't my favorite but it works well, when I don't have the tent on. My buddy and I were conversing over the issue yesterday and theres no way I'm going to fit the tire there without moving the tent significantly back.

The more I talk about it the more I want to rip this damn RTT off the truck and move to a different sleeping setup.

Sidenote: why not go with a custom tube bypass layout to solve your current rear shock issue? I know different manufactures offer different layouts but I'm sure all of them offer custom options.

Pretty much exactly what I'm currently doing when not running the tent but I can't find a picture of it to save my life! New phone issues.

 

Doing bypasses in the rear with SOA and heavy loads comes with shit load of compromises. Custom tube layouts are an option, but extending the compression zone at the top (of a triple bypass) higher would compromise the length of the bump zone on the shock. If I ever change anything in the rear it will be to change out the 12s I have, to 14s.

 

That’s what my understanding was. The loss of low speed control make carrying a lot of weight a compromise but you gain more ability to fine tune the setup.

What shock hoops are you using? I know when I built mine a 14” would have compromised a little bump travel due to the longer shock body. That’s all while tying to keep the setup under the bed.

 

I've got custom/homemade ones similar to what Jberry has.... not that there is a lot of ways of doing it, but his were what I based mine on, his style looked to be the strongest/best designed. I don't think it's possible to use the full 14", but with aftermarket hangers & shackles and a welded rod eye I'm confident I could get an inch or so more.

 

Very nice.

My Dakar’s won’t cycle a full 14” shock but maybe a nice set of custom leafs would. I still don’t think it would be worth the loss in up travel for my setup though. I’d have to go with something that’s plate like the Archive kit to gain everything possible if I went that route.

Or just take the 1” spacer out of my 12” shocks and make them 13”.

 

The struggle is real.

I'm thinking about a dual tire swing out, replacing the tail gate, and mount the tires like a trophy truck, along the long axis of the truck. They will intrude on the bed, under the bed rack/rtt, but that gets them lower and farther forward.

No helping the weight in the back though, only other option is to put them flat on (or in) the bed floor and use a slider above them to get your gear in and out.

 

The options are endless but I’m trying to maximize bed space in addition to all of the other variables. A 12.5” wide tire under my current setup doesn’t leave much room and a 35” tire literally takes up half of the depth laying flat.

 

I have about 25" from the bed floor to the bottom of the bed bar. Just wanted to keep the numbers updated.

 

How much of a requirement is keeping the bed? Going to a flatbed conversion opens up allot of possibilities too.

 

Never really considered that option. I’ve always assumed that going that route was rather costly?

I could always DIY a flatbed but the setup would get rather hefty.

 

what I have:



it's not fabbed perfectly, but it was a trial run for a buddy and I got it for material cost lol. freed up lots of bed space vs. having it lay flat in the bed. this is a 35 btw.