Let's play "how screwed am I?"

Stop using Haynes. You need FSM. With Haynes everything looks so simple till you start doing it and finding that a lot of things the book just skipped or few pages procedure from FSM Haynes describes in one short sentence. Haynes if good for w wheel chock tho (when folded in half).

 

I have the FSM (HTML version), and I do consult it, but there's hardly a "rebuild the engine" section in it. Plus, it assumes you have all sorts of super-expensive special tools that the Haynes shows how to get by without.

 

Yes it might be overwhelming number of SST they use, everything that is more complicated then a hammer has a SST number in there . The detail level and necessary checks are important.

Rebuild is a matter of disassembly, inspection, replacing bad parts and reassembly. All this is in FSM. On-line HTML is as good as printed one (as long as it has all pages). Just sometimes pain in the ass to navigate.

 

It's not a big city thing.

You can't just take it apart and put it back together. Well, you can, but what would be the point? You need to fix the cracks. Read this and good luck.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2005/10/cylinder-head-crack-repairs/

 

I went through this with a 2.7 I4 and you are going to want to take your time if you are going to look at a JDM engine. I spent a few months looking at Import JDM shops in my area and finally found a shop that had an available one and that they would also let me inspect before purchasing. I was able to go and visually inspect the entire thing, check down the spark plug holes , valve cover and made me much more confident on the quality im going to purchase. It ended up costing $1700 for just the motor but after installing and having driven 15K miles i can confidently say it was well worth the price, all in for maintenance parts and help from my shade tree mechanic cost close to $2,800.

I just wasn't willing to put in the time/effort/money needed to completely tear down the motor and rebuild like some people would do. This is my daily driver and if this motor ever goes out ill more than likely look at another JDM swap.

 

A lot of guessing going on in this thread. If you want to salvage the engine, compression test and then leakdown test.
the bock and head have freeze plugs, if it froze that bad it would very likely have popped one and spilled out coolant in addition to any cracks you can't see.
you could just have a slightly leaking headgasket (most common issue out of all the possibilites on an old toyota motor), and they can do a test on the coolant sytem for that (but the leakdown will also tell you alot if the radiator bubbles up).
Alot of the time, you can narrow it down from a simple compression test.
If you can change your spark plugs, you can do a compression test.

Now if its just the headgasket (probably your best case scenario), you are looking at taking off the heads, getting them cleaned up, refitting all new gaskets etc.. the costs add up, probably 3-500 for all the oem gaskets and misc crap etc..
if the head or heads are cracked, you are looking at money for that also in addition.

I have actually repaired a few engines that were further gone including a 2JZ and a 2UZ, and pretty much its usually cheaper to swap in a used running engine if you can find one locally and verify condition.
if you are ordering online like ebay or JDM, expect that its been sitting and will also need alot of new gaskets etc.. possibly a new set of problems, which raises the cost some more but still usually better than repairing.

Also factor in the labor involved even if you are doing it yourself, it is much easier to swap a motor than to open it up and put it back together and have it run right.
not everyone gets a headgasket job to seal right on their first try, heck some people can't even get the timing notches to line up properly after attempting just the timing belt job.

My suggestion, get a $50 compression tester and add it to your tool kit. compression test your engine and see where the problem is.
You can also borrow these from auto stores without paying anything but a deposit. The leakdown test is more complicated, but also worth doing if you have the time (1st thing I do when I have more time than money).
water pouring out the tail pipe could be a crap ton of condensation built up and sitting, a blown gasket or two, cracked head or two, or a cracked block.
It could also just be condensation as I wouldn't take a mechanic at face value who didn't suggest a compression test. takes like 15 minutes.

likely, from it not starting and low on coolant I would say it probably is a leak.
I'll also go out on a limb and guess you just blew the gasket, probably on the drivers side where the exhaust crossover is in the rear on cylinder #6. we would have a better idea if someone did a compression test. I could have done one for you in the time it took to write this. If I saw #6 low I would know right away.

If there is a major problem with it, as in more than just 1 headgasket or cylinder head, find a used engine locally and swap it.
check craigslist, check part outs, facebook marketplace, tacoma and 4runner engines are not difficult to find generally.

If you want to tackle it knowing its going to be alot more work to repair it vs replacing it, compression and leakdown test it.
With a few service manuals, and a bunch of time anyone can put a toyota engine back together.... but I would say 8 out of 10 times it is not worth it.
I can say with certainty that after I resurrected that 2UZ (swapped cylinder heads twice before I got that engine purring again), I regretted doing it time wise and even cost wise, but that was an actually broken cylinder head (dropped a valve seat). it was not just a gasket which would have been less expensive.

The 2JZ I upgraded while I was in there, so that one was worth it

edit* btw to give you an idea of prices, arond here in denver you can find a good conditoin running 5vz for under 1k, and most shade tree mechanics charge 5-800 to drop one in. its so easy to rip out a tacoma motor and drop another in its place its mind numbing that the one mechanic quoted you 2 grand.

Do yourself a favor and find a more trusty mechanic, you are in a tight spot and they are aware of that. he could have done a compression test, but he doesn't want to repair it, he wants that easy yank and drop in a new motor, and he will make money off of both the engine purchase and the install.

Heck for 4k, you bring your truck over to me and I will throw a v8 in there for you.

 

I wish you were closer, I’d let you burn a hole in the checkbook.

 

According to Google, the closest one to me is in the nearest big city [St. Louis], so…

I thought the idea was to replace or recondition the head, and then examine the rest of the engine for further damage.

 

The cheapest one I can find there is like $1100. Most are $1200+. Am I doing the wrong searches?

 

This is really useful information; thanks. I want to be clear here: If I do a compression/leakdown test, discover it's, say, a leaking headgasket or maybe a cracked head and fix that, I don't have to rebuild the engine to make sure nothing else got damaged?

How did you upgrade it?

Which is confusing, because this particular mechanic has been very good in the past at doing cheap fixes and keeping the cost down. It's why I go to him (besides the fact that what he fixes stays fixed). For instance, he slapped a patch on my exhaust one time (on another car) when the muffler shop wanted to replace the pipe for several hundred dollars.

 

"Freeze Plugs" are NOT freeze plugs. They're casting plugs to get sand out from manufacturing.

All other advise is getting pretty good. The reason advise goes cold to hot on rebuilding is because it is a crap shoot.
I would always advise finding out what's wrong (just out of my curiousity) but unless it's a small block chevy, parts are just too high.
You're going to be better off getting another engine unless it's just a head gasket that rusted out from sitting. Even getting new heads and doing the valve adjustment is going to get expensive.

Have you done much measuring of feeler gauge type measurements (they really matter) to rebuild any part is what is boils down too.

I wouldn't discourage ANYONE from wanting to do it just for a learning experience but now days rebuilding just isn't that cheap. As far as shops. Yes, the old corner machine shops are getting hard to find. They've gone big time but are still good for bearing pressing and the like. I guess the money's better doing that (and race engines). I know I couldn't aford a shop to do an engine for me anymore and i used to see that done a lot.

 

Like someone said, you really need to see an engine rebuilder and not a shade tree mechanic.

One other thought, do you know any mechanics at your local Toyota dealership?
Lots of times they have their own garage at home where they will do this type of work for half the cost of doing it at the dealership.

 

Generally speaking the bottom end on these motors are so strong that one you fix the top end problem that is all you need to do.
I have seen blown headgaskets and badly warped heads where the block looked brand new still, cross hatching on cylinder walls and all.
The 5vz being an older toyota Iron block motor with aluminum cylinder heads, the main way you will kill the bottom end is running it without oil.
Generally, when something goes wrong the aluminum cylinder head will warp from the heat and the gasket will blow out long before you can get to temps that can hurt the iron block.

I wouldn't recommend even attempting to rebuild the bottom end, if you have to touch the bottom end on these motors, you just junk it and drop in another one.
Now if the motor was not maintained oil wise the bottom end could have bearing issues, but you would hear some type of knocking in or out of load, or hear/feel some type of symptom while its running. You would see lots of shavings in the oil at some point too.
In the scenario you are in, I would only ever attempt head replacement when I am fairly confident the motor was otherwise healthy, no knocking, no shaking at idle. etc.. drives well.. a good runner.
A leakdown test would give you an indication on how healthy the bottom end is on the cylinders that are still working. a compression test is less accurate but a general indicator also.

No one goes through and does a full bottom end rebuild on these motors, its not necessary and its so time confusing its not even close to economical.
Now a turbo motor that is built for tons of boost, people like to go through the bottom end to be proactive cause they are spending lots of money on related parts.
Nothing about that is economical but that is the price for really high performance once you pass the limitations of the stock block, which is alot on the iron toyota blocks.
I have seen several 2jz-ge non turbo engines that were turbocharged putting down 6-700hp on completely stock bottom ends, and the 5VZ bottom end has a similar build quality. There are plenty of guys turboing the 5VZ's too without having to touch the bottom end, and I rather turbo a stock block in good condition than one rebuilt by a shade tree mechanic, but everyone likes their own way.

 

Well, you're certainly giving me hope that I can get out of this by spending hundreds instead of thousands of dollars. A quick search shows that I can maybe get a new head, if it comes to that, for $3–600, but of course that doesn't include the time and effort and tools, etc. to put it in, which I don't (yet) know how to do. If I can replace the head gasket or head for a reasonable amount, and hope (after compression/leakdown tests) that the bottom end is still good, then if it craps out on me in the future, I can get a new engine then.

Or do I still not know what I'm talking about?

 

Watch this series of videos and read the description its got a breakdown. It is possible the head is cracked but won't know till you pull it off.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=#&ved=2ahUKEwj9s_6YquTgAhUKI6wKHTkeB9cQwqsBMAB6BAgJEAU&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov&cshid=1551559842228

 

I skimmed the last couple pages but, depending on whats cracked/broken is going to determine your cost. If you are doing a budget build, fix the stuff thats broke and put new gaskets in and call it good.

If you want to do it right, find out what is all broken...get your cylinders mic'd out to see if you need replacing or just honed the cylinder walls. Go through the heads (take it to a machinist) and replace the broken one/s. If the pistons arent worn out put new rings in and if the crank and connecting rods are straight/ within tolerance put new bearings in. check cams for wear, and lifters/pushrods etc...check your flywheel and make sure its in good condition also. It can get expensive to get machine work done. Also think you can get ARP bolts for the connecting rods, but not really necessary if you are doing a stock rebuild IMO..

still lots of variables and it can get expensive depending on the parts but thats the jist of it.

 

That URL doesn't seem to go anywhere.

 

Hmm try this one
https://youtu.be/voLBRDZL9fE

And do a compression test first thing, likely you only have to replace one side.

 

is the oil normal looking or is there coolant in it?

 

Those are great videos. If anyone wants to see what a crack looks like skip to episode 4, about 14:30.