Long range rifles

https://youtu.be/NaDWio6Y3Xs

 

Damn you MDT.



Second grip is for a friend that forgot to order one.

 

Nice!

 

Purchased a Bergara HMR 6.5 CM on Black Friday. Tonight I ordered a 20 MOA base, now I’m on to the scope. My goal is 1,000 yards 12 inch target. I’ve watched reviews and read articles and would like to stay below or around $500-750. Not too concerned about first or second focal plane. Also not concerned with MIL or MOA as I have to learn either. I’m not a fan boy of any scope company.
Narrowed choices to these but am open to others.
1:Vortex PST gen 1 6-24
2: Nikon black fx1000 6-24 (Nikon no longer making scopes makes me hesitant but the prices have dropped which is appealing)
3: Vortex Viper HST 6-24

Should I save some more money for a pst gen 2 which seems to be a favorite in reddit threads? I would rather buy once cry once.

Thanks for the input

 

any recommended bolt on scope turrets? or do you have to send the scope in?

 

nikon got out of the scope company like a month ago. Fx-1000 is a good budget scope, but just know the warranty will not be honored at this time if that matters to you.
Pst gen 1 is fine, at least if it isn’t tracking you can send it in and worst case they send you back a gen 2 lol. Learn to use the reticle for fire correction. you’ll want a FFP scope.

Mil vs moa is easy, either you like going by inches (1 moa is 1.047 at 100 yards, 10.47 at 1000y. Or you can go by 3.6 inches (mrad) at 100y, 36 inches at 1000y. Or .1 mil being 1 cm at 100y. Which ever makes the most sense to you. Neither is better, both are merely angular measurements. Edit: sorry missed the part you mentioned nikon getting out of the scope business .

 

What kind of scope? Some have the option from the company, many don’t. There is no universal option worth mentioning. Also depending on the scope, there might not be enough travel of the diopter travel to use it as a target turret if that is the intention..

 

Vortex viper 6.5x20x50...on Savage 300 win mag

 

I would send a email, or call their customer service and ask. I’m not 100% sure if it was the same scope but I know a dude who got custom turrets from them. Instead of fully customizing it, ask if they can just do it in whatever you scope comes in (mils/moa). I find that custom turrets based what they ask you to provide are silly since they are only good for one or two sets of density altitude.

 

Yeah im just wanting something simple. I saw one on a hunting show but no info on it.it was basic 200,300 400yds etc

 

@Cole_MT

Welcome to the silliness, hide yo credit card around these cats!

What experience do you have with long range shooting?

1.2moa at 1k not hard at all with a decent enough rifle.

MIL vs MOA flip a coin, just make sure you have the same reticle as turrets. MIL/MIL, MOA/MOA, unless you like math. MRAD is a form of MIL, so keep that in the back of your mind. I grew up on mildot, so I lean towards the MIL/MIL, but that’s years of forced preference.

The larger the power range the more distorted and smaller the eyebox is at higher power. You can do 1k with that rifle and a 10x fixed power, but don’t expect to spot your own impacts. 15-25x power is good enough for your purposes. Don’t overpower the 30mm tube and your selected bell size. There is a point of diminishing returns at about 15x for 44mm, and 25x on 50mm on 30mm tubes. 34mm tubes are great if you need them, but overkill and simply farkle for most of us.. and that’s what I run on my LR rig. (Bushnell DMR2)

I’ve been pushing my rifle past 1k with a midway special $400 5-15x44 Viper HS-T mildot/.1mrad for a couple years now, no concerns. Only recently bumped to new glass.

Vortex runs most of their mid power gen1 glass SFP with calibration of reticle at max power. I can’t remember the last time that scope has been rolled off 15x. For this, SFP is fine, and shouldn’t be a deal breaker imo. Sure FFP is nice if you are changing power for different shots, but you can live without... many do.

The HS-T will have the same quality glass as the gen1 PST, but no illumination. So if you are not shooting in lowlight conditions, save a few bucks and grab the HS-T. If you can find used all the better... you’re still covered under warranty. The non illuminated reticle will be a finer wire, and not get too big at higher powers. This rings true for etched and wire, non-illuminated will always be finer.

The PST Gen2 is a better set of glass then Gen1, and the zero stop is more precise.

Avoid reticle that are too busy, unless you absolutely want them. I dislike the standard Christmas Tree looks, and have moved from Vortex offerings because there’s just too much going on in the current EBR line. I lean for the cleaner views in the SWFA Super Sniper line, but they don’t have a factory zero stop, but there’s a nice aftermarket option. I settled on a cleaner Christmas Tree with the Bushnell... but mostly because I got it for $450 off market value.

Zero stop. Helpful if you are going to be making lots and lots of elevation adjustments. Imperative if you are making adjustments while stressed.

It’s late and up with sick kiddo. Hope my ramblings helped.

 

Haaaaaave you met Kenton?

http://kentonindustries.com/custom-turrets/vortex

 

I know that I have come to the right place to ask this question. I have a number of firearms right now but nothing in the long range category. I want to start small and eventually build up to something bigger, but I live in MA so fat chance of a Barrett in my future. I also want something that my 11 year old daughter can start with as well. She is extremely respectful of firearms and she knows more about Range etiquette than most 40 year olds. She has shot my Tavor X95 and she has her own 10/22 that she is slowly modifying. I was looking at the Remington 700 Varmint in either a .223 or 6.5. Does anyone have any range time or experience with this gun? I will be fitting with a Vortex optic.

 

Remington 700 SPS Varmint. Good cheaper start, but is 1:12 twist so shooting the 65gn+ won’t be as applicable.

Junk the Tupperware stock and get a nicer take-off, or one of the magpul hunters... something with good range of adjustments.

Also look at the cz and Howa mini actions, and the Howa 1500. A lot of fun for $450

 

Can you explain a little bit more about the twist? Is lest twist better? Like I said, I'm a newbie too long range.

 

no problem, of all the gun related discussion boards I have been on, this is the most laid back, helpful, and least judgmental I have ever seen.... so I help when I can. I'll break it down from the basic to help if needed, no insult meant, just don't know where you are starting from.

The barrel's internal diameter is broken into two measurements, lands and groves. The lands are the inner/smaller diameter, and groves are the outer/larger diameter of the bore.

Twist is rated as number of twist in number of inches of barrel length. A twist is one full revolution of the bullet. 1:12 = one twist per 12" of barrel, 1:9 = one twist in 9". This means the smaller the second number the "faster" the twist of the barrel.

When the powder charge goes off, the bullet, which is a slightly smaller diameter than the lands, is shoved into them, and forcing the bullet to conform and follow their twisting path out to the muzzle. This puts a spin on the bullet. The velocity of the bullet down the barrel and the twist dictate the rate of spin. The spin of the bullet acts in the same manner as that of a football being thrown. There is an optimum spin rate, RPM, for a given object in flight, based on a number of factors, but to a greater extent it's mass and density. Too much spin and the object becomes unstable, too little spin and the object becomes unstable. This ties into the bullet's moment of inertia, it's resistance to angular acceleration/deceleration and stability about the axis of rotation. The moment the bullet leaves the barrel it's spin begins to slow. Eventually the spin's resistance to angular forces will cause the bullet to destabilize and start the wobble you see when a football starts to slow it's spin and forward velocity at the end of a Hail Mary pass. This wobble causes reduced accuracy/predictability of impact. When the rate of spin at the muzzle is too slow for a given mass of the bullet, it will reach this point of destabilization earlier in it's path, causing down-range performance to suffer. Too fast of a twist and the bullet will have more RPM than it can handle, and as often the case with the 4300fps+ calibers, a catastrophic failure of the bullet itself. While too slow of a twist won't always make itself known at shorter ranges with heavier bullets, it's noticeable at longer ranges.

1:12 is a good twist for everything up to about the 45gn mark with a .223, and maybe heavier, but to a limited range Once you start crossing the 500yrd mark, I would tend to lean towards faster twists to stabilize the heavier bullets above 55gn, 1:9 - 1:7 will stabilize just about anything above 55gn all the way to the 75gn, with a longer barrel. Now, why heavier bullets? Heavier bullets maintain more velocity and less affect by wind than a lighter one, so for long range shooting you want a heavier bullet.

more words and stuff.

So, if you are shooting long range, or anything beyond that 100yrd snoozer line, you will want to have a twist rate that matches the ammo and velocities you are shooting. Planning on 500yrd+, 1:8 is a great place to be, since you'll be shooting the heavier bullets.


on edit: and I just saw you mentioned 6.5 in your post about what to get your daughter... I LOVE 6.5s, you are going to get a hoopla of 6.5 creedmore arguments and the like. I have a 6.5 Grendel gas gun for hunting, but for long range I shoot a .260rem and 6.5x55 (that is when ever I get off my ass to rebuild the Swede). The sweet spot for 6.5/.264 is about at the 2700-3100fps mark. This means you'll be running a medium sized cartage, and the recoil along with it. you can into the 2700fps node with a Grendel, but you'll be slinging a 28+ inch barrel to get that velocity out of the case.

If your daughter is recoil shy, it might be early to get her into the 6.5s or the hot-rod 6's. Everything under 800yrds, a nice 24-28" 1:8 .223 rem is going to teach her far more about the art of making the shot. Getting the bullet down-range is only a small part of the deal. The rest is wind, drop, air density, temps, cold-bore vs hot-bore, and the shooter themselves. Basically the .223, or something along those lines, will make her work harder and learn more... then when she's shooting the lights out with an underdog, hand off a 6.5x47 super custom job with all the bells and whistles to beat the socks off her competition.

For the record, my training is done on a single shot .22lr at 200yrds.

 

@corprin Thank you very much for that lesson sir. I really learned a lot. I was assuming that the higher the number the better but now I see the logic behind it. The 6.5 creedmore was more for me but my daughter is definitely not recoil shy. If I had a picture of the first time that she shot my remington 870 express with a slug in it, it was a smile bigger than the world....lol. I agree with you regarding the .223 and it going to make her learn a lot more and work harder. And btw, that's awesome that you shot 22lr at 200 yards. Thank you very much for the info sir. Much appreciated.

 

Not sure if anyone has any experience with Kenton Industries but I’ve had them in my links for awhile. Looked at them a few times, just one of those many gun or truck mods that’s been sitting on the back burner.

http://kentonindustries.com/custom-turrets/vortex

Any positive or negative feedback is more then welcome.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/long-range-rifles.355127/page-71#post-22155442



They are a good company with a good reputation on the hide. I don’t have personal dealings, but when I was looking myself I read very good things.

 

lol I think I actually missed that entire page. Normally I catch up on all the pages then post.