Costco full synthetic 0/20 for $2.50 per quart.

There are only a handful of Base Oil producers in the US and the world. Warren is not one of them. What they do however is blend to order base oil with additive packs, according to their client's specifications. In US base oil usually comes from two major producers Chevron or Exxon and the additive packs from several other producers that supply pretty much every oil making company.

 

To build on this... Oils are tested to meet certain specifications based on their requirements. For example, Mobil 1 specifies one of their oils meets API SN. What does this mean? Well in nerd talk...

"Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conservingmatches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control systemcompatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85."​

There are specific requirements that must be met to claim you meet this standard... whether dollar tree oil or snake oil you buy from an independent dealer. They all meet the bare minimum requirements. Some, however, may perform much better in certain areas, meaning you may have better sludge control, less foaming, and the like. The additive packages the oil companies specify are what drives price (for R&D and marketing). And as said before, this is BIG BUSINESS to the oil companies and is extremely competitive.

Is a more expensive oil better? Perhaps. But a cheap oil that meets spec will also work for the recommended intervals the manufacture's engineers specify as well. Just like owning a Kia and a Porsche. Both meet minimum US DOT and safety requirements... but we know one is better at certain tasks than the other.



BTW - Happy Friday Thread!

 

Hush with all this factual information!

 

Of course. Mobil 1 is just a brand. The green Mobil 1 jugs are slightly different than the blue Mobil 1 jugs and slightly different than the brown Mobil 1 jugs. I'd expect racing oil to be different - no extended running below freezing temps and oil change after every race.

 

Lucky for you guys I used to do the formulation for engine oils.

First, both will likely use a Group III base oil, while premium stuff like M1 may use 10-20% PAO/Ester, Euro/imported fluids may be all PAO. Royal purple also uses Group III, their SDS says so.
Here is the major difference between an entry-level synthetic and a premium synthetic.

The additive package in the entry level stuff is around 7-8% treat rate giving a low TBN (PQIA will show around a 7ish TBN) so low detergent loads, lower dispersant and AO treats and generally it will be the market general cheapest additive package that meets min requirements of API SN Plus and dexos1. These packs are available to anyone so you can blend tacomaworld engine oil with them and I'm sure Warren would be happy to make it for us.
The premium stuff will have an additive package around 13-16% treat rate and tends to have more of the expensive stuff like molybdenum, fancier antioxidants like phenolic or other type (aminic is the cheap standard) as well as other "differentiators" so a M1, Castrol EDGE, Pennzoil Plat will all have a unique formula created by people like me along with marketing to try to differentiate the performance vs. others. So Pennzoil is around cleaner pistons, Castrol is around better sludge prevention, etc. These custom formulas are not available to any other company and are like coca cola guarded secrets.

The viscosity modifier. Believe it or not your engine oil has polymer in it. That's what makes it a XW-XX oil because at high temp the oil is thickened by the polymer and at cold temp the thinner oil flows better and the polymer curls up so it doesn't thicken as much. Now your entry level again will go with the cheapest polymer. It is called an OCP (Olefin copolymer) they are cheap and thicken very well but have 2 flaws. They tend to breakdown and leave piston deposits and they shear down. OK shear... your engine is a giant shearing machine at 5500 rpm so polymers being the long chains they are tend to break apart. This means your

$54 0W-20 oil Toyota/ exxon mobil Case of 6 Quarts Full Synthetic TGMO SN 0W-20 Oil

0W-20 oil you poured in may be a 0W-16 oil by the time it comes out. So OCPs are bad at that and we tend to formulate a product at a higher viscosity fresh so it can "stay-in-grade" but be on the lower end when used.
Your premiums use generally a star shaped styrene based polymer that burns cleaner so less deposits, and also stays in grade better due to the star shape vs. a linear or branched chain. They are more expensive for 2 reasons, you need to use more of it as they don't thicken as well as OCP and the additive companies just charge more for them.

The best way to easily explain this is your cheap entry-level synthetics are basically your conventional products but made with a synthetic base oil which they kind of had to do anyway as 0Ws are pretty much all synthetic and most cars are calling for all synthetic, factory.

What does all this techno babble mean to most people who get 300k out of running Canola oil in their trucks? Not much as they all will do the job if you change the oil frequently enough but if you opt for better stuff, basically your engine will run cleaner which generally means less cylinder wall scoring, less deposits on your ring pack so less ring sticking, less likely to burn oil and poison your cat, etc.

 

So you were saying "basically same quality synthetic oil as numerous other brands."

GTFOH they are not the same quality.

 

I asked Warren for a sheet, they sent it right over.

 

I pulled up the latest SuperTech 5W-20 vs. a Mobil 1 5W-20 from http://pqiadata.org/ (they didn't have a recent 0W-20) but notice what I pointed out. The TBN is lower on the SuperTech/Kirkland/AmazonBasics which means shorter drain interval / less fluid life

The volatility is higher (bad) on the cheap stuff, and the calcium detergent (cheapest) which tends to cause pre-ignition is at the highest level allowed yet still meeting API SN Plus so technically it does still work for Turbo GDI engines.

 

Looks like pretty good stuff!

 

I think the truck would fare better on Supertech changed every 5k vs Mobil 1 every 10k. As the price of Supertech is 25% of Mobil even if you followed this twice as often philosophy you would spend half as much on oil and the inside of the engine would be cleaner.

Spam Away!

 

Got em! Lol

 

Fairly blanket statement. Kind of like many social media political posts. Opinions without supporting facts.

Assuming you either run an independent lab and/or are a tribologist, are willing to share your evidence?

 

I got your mom last night.

 

Take one day break from Tacoma world and miss all the oil thread action
SMH

 

For the average person running average intervals, the differences are negligible. That’s where the word basically comes in. Is your Tacoma an exception? Or are you a hardcore offroading badass that pulls 5k lbs everyday and then tracks his truck on the weekend? That amount you’re paying for quality will never matter in the life of your truck, if you even keep it that long.

 

Mobil1 at $12.00 off per jug. Same price!

 

It’s a good deal when they have it going on. Unfortunately only a few times a year I’ve noticed.

 

You are making lots of assumptions. How do you know the differences are negligible? That's not fact, just your opinion. Your arguments would stick better if you brought some data and facts, instead of spewing nonsense.

 

Are you not an average owner/user by Toyota’s standards?

I know because I chose to look into the matter and do some research based off of scientific analysis and other vehicle owners. There’s plenty of VOAs and UOAs show so and plenty of lab data on BITOG showing Supertech is just fine for regular drain intervals in a Tacoma and other vehicles with the same engine. I change my oil every 5k anywhere under what would be considered severe service. The benefits of Mobil and certain other synthetics is the longevity that their additives provide under an extended oil interval, say if you’re running 10k oil changes. 10k in my OPINION is too long of an interval for the general public, because they often out of other maintenance requirements or inspections that occur in that period, such as even a simple tire rotation. That’s why I choose to personally change it at 5 since I’m already under there, despite tests showing it’ll go to 7 or 8k with no problems. There’s been plenty of data and sources in this thread. Give BITOG a try or even PQIA tests, or blackstone tests, or real world testimony. You’re choosing not to accept it for what it is. My real world testimony is logging almost 600k miles between 3 Tacomas over the years with zero oil related issues. I used to be a Mobil and amsoil fanboy too, until I started racking miles, and dumped in whatever oil was on sale at the time. Eventually Supertech became the cheapest consistent oil whether conventional or synthetic. A first gen with over 300k before the frame rusted out. A second gen that still had 255k and that’s still being used as a work truck in the Minnesota. And now a third gen with 35k miles. Other accounts have been displayed in this very thread. You’re simply choosing to be a naysayer.