120 vac winch that fits?

Has anyone tried to use a 120 vac winch on a Tacoma or similar?

For various reasons, this option might make more sense for my ( thinking about) setup.

Thanks

Harry

 

who makes a 120 Vac winch with 8k load? what's the current draw on that?

 

I don’t know who makes one but I’m guessing the current draw is 10x less than a normal 12v winch.

 

I checked the google. They exist, they max out at like 2 or 3k lbs, and they aren't vehicle mounted.

 

Thanks - it does look like the 120 vac versions are not rated for that level - at least the ones that I could find on-line.

Some of them are winch / hoist units which might explain some of that difference.

I only have available ~ 20 amps @ 120 vac.

Guess I need to think more traditionally.

 

What do you want to accomplish?

 

I have an existing add on power system that I would like to use in the truck.

It is 48 VDC internally.

Has a 2000 watt continuous duty inverter.

I can readily access the 48 volt x 100 amps, or the 120 vac x 20 amps

Pulling 12 volt out is more limited - really just 20-30 amps via a DC - DC converter.

Would like to use this to drive the winch.

I looked at the warn zeon 10 winch 8000 lb rating. Requires 350 amps @ 12 volts.

Most people on the forum appear to try to run this from the starter battery and maybe a size 31 house battery.

It is difficult to believe that they can pull 350 - 450 amps from that combo for more than ~ 10 -30 seconds or so. ~ 4 kW.

The existing system can readily supply 4 kW on the 48 volt side for quite a while and 3 kW for short periods of time from the 120 vac side.

I could slightly supplement the 12 volt starter battery during the pull time (30 amps) and help recharge it faster, but not enough to make 350 amps.

 

look at you doing basic math with PIE.

As said, I can't find one made more than 2000lbs.
then he has to have a 12vdc to 120 vac inverter that can handle the roughly 40 amps.

unless he already has the winch, or plans dual purpose for it, it doesn't make financial sense to me. but hey, it's not my stuff so I dont care what it costs him. I'm just curious about who makes the winch and it's current draw

 

Electric motors really only pull their max when they're stalled. Most people don't push their winches nearly that far most of the time, and a car battery can put out plenty of amps for those short bursts.

It looks like 48V winches exist though. Get a couple of snatch blocks and that might be enough.

https://www.shopyourway.com/polaris...2015-2016-polaris-ranger-ev-2881334/703318831

 

People have thought about it multiple times, I've seen multiple threads about it here.

They have all come to the same conclusion. It is a terrible idea. Every post I've seen from someone trying to run a 120v winch thinks they have this magic fix that no one else has thought of because they have a large capacity inverter. That's cool and all, but there are literally no advantages to running a 120v winch, even if you have a

115v/230v winches are generally much more bulky and heavier and don't have nearly the capacity that is necessary. They're also usually designed for static lifting loads (like an engine hoist) vs. pulling a stuck vehicle.

This is the heaviest duty 115/230v winch on this site, it's even a Warn.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442149_200442149

Not only is it laughably under powered for off-road recovery, it draws ~21 amps at 120v, which exceeds the specs you mensioned. And again, this is under powered for off-road applications.

If you want something with a 8000+ capacity and 120v, you're going to bolt one of these to your bumper, lol



You can get a WARN that's designed for off road recovery for ~1/3 the cost that actually has adequate pulling power (minimum 8000#), and you don't waste power converting it to 120v.

Then there's the question of how you're planning to power this inverter. I assume from the vehicle electrics. If that's the case, not only are you wasting power by converting to 120v, you're also consuming just as much (more, actually, because you're wasting power) as from a 12v system, and your alternator still won't be able to keep up. Most people who winch a lot end up with a larger alternator and larger wiring to the battery.

Your winch should be able to carry 1.5x the max gross weight of your vehicle, in a SINGLE LINE PULL. Don't throw a bunch of snatch blocks at it, just to reach the weight of your truck.

 

Most people who use an electric winch use the starter battery because it works.

Electric winches have a duty cycle. Some are terribly short, something like 5%(iirc) for harbor freight winches, and slightly higher/longer duration for higher quality winch motors. Either way that's fine and works out nicely to that 10-30 seconds pulling, 2-10 minutes at rest.

You are correct that they draw high current. Luckily, 12v lead acid batteries are fine supplying it. Otherwise electric starter motors wouldn't work very well. This is also why its generally recommended to upgrade to the highest CCA and standby rating battery you can fit, upgrade the alternator with a higher output model, and do the "big 3" upgrade for the wiring between the alternator, battery and chassis ground to maximize charging.

If you want continuous duty rated winches, you are better off looking at hydraulic or PTO winches. Hydraulic and PTO are popular in winch competitions because you can use the power of the engine to pull a stuck vehicle.

The advantage electric has is that you can pull when the truck is not running/engine off. E.g. you're in a mudhole or body of water and the motor stops. Cranking it might damage it even more, so you can pull with an electric winch until you drain the battery. Or if you're off camber and the motor dies(more typical with a carbeurated motor than efi), you can pull until you fry the battery or level off the engine compartment and can crank the motor.

 

I should find someone who has a heavy duty 12 volt winch and actually measure the currents under load. I have zero faith that these are really being used at 3-400 amps from a starter battery but I have been wrong many times before.

 

I have been doing a lot of research on the subject, primarily debating a dual battery setup. There is plenty of documentation available through google. The majority of the documentation that directly references 4WD recovery operations comes from Australian sources that practice recovery competitions. The majority of these competitors are performing recoveries of an EXTREME nature. Those people are putting 10-12K winches under high torque for extended periods of time, and they run dual battery setups to protect their starter battery and provide addition current for the extended pulls. The average person will seldom, if ever, utilize their winch in this type of scenario. The starter battery is more than capable of performing the average pull as long as the vehicle is running. The typical Tacoma gen 3 alternator produces a maximum of 130 amps, which is sufficient to maintain the system under a non-stalled winch load. In a stalled load scenario, the starter battery can buffer the load for short duration pulls. If you wish to setup for longer duration, high stall scenario pulls, you either need to installed a high amp alternator and/or move to a dual battery setup.

The best thing you can do to avoid such long duration pulls is to use load reducing techniques utilizing a snatch block setups, and proper winch loading technique.

 

Or you can find a reputable winch manufacturers website where they freely post their specifications of their products.

https://www.warn.com/zeon-8-winch-88980

The 3rd image has weight pulled, line speed and amp draw for different loads.

And here:

Image 4

https://www.warn.com/165tis-heavyweight-winch-97740

Edit: again, if you are really concerned about current draw, you can install multiple batteries and a parallel charging circuit, then wire the batteries in parallel for the winch so that you minimize current draw on each battery. Or you can install a large deep cycle battery or quality AGM with an appropriate voltage booster (google this forum, Crashnburn80 and voltage booster amd theres a thread that details this).

If you feel for some reason that you need a winch that can pull 100% duty cycle, electric is Not the way to go. Again, there are hydraulic powered winched that can be powered by a replacement power steering pump (sized appropriately for the needs of the power sterring rack and the higher volumes needed for the winch hyd. motor). Hydraulic is 100% the way to go with frequent, long duration high load pulls.

Electric winches came to the market and gained popularity because they are simpler to install and operate than hydraulic or pto powered winches, generally of lighter weight, and require few supporting modifications to your vehicle. Most people who toss a winch on the front of their pickup/jeep and use it once or twice a year will do just fine with a good battery and no additional upgrades as long as they don't try to pull for minutes at a time (and again, the duty cycle of electric winches needs paid attention to). Upgrading the battery, alternator and some basic wiring (big 3) is the next step up for someone who needs a winch on a more routine basis. But if you're slogging through the brazilian rain forest in your Truggy on 40" cut boggers, PTO or hydraulic with an electric backup is the way to go.