FWC Project M Project

54 weeks. That’s insane. Just a couple months ago they were 34 weeks.

Worse case you can throw on some airbags and that would take care of any sag due to the extra weight.

I went with the diesel version of the heater for now. Heard the gas ones don’t work that great. @venture4wd on YouTube has a gas version in his Jeep and had a bunch of issues with it.

The diesel knockoffs are only $150 so I figured it would be a good test. I bought a Carbonmonoxide meter and have a fire/CO detector as well. So far it has worked without issue. But have only run it for a few hours.

Here are a few pics of the install.




5L fuel tank is in the engine compartment. I installed on the passenger side where people tend to put a second battery.

 

Bananas setup. Nice work.

Can you tell me what the height from the truck bed to the bottom of the sleeping bed is? I want to see if my bike will fit underneath with the front wheel removed.

Thanks!

 

Looks to be about 42” from the bed of the truck to the bottom of the sleeping bed slide in.

 

Much thanks @AverageGuyTaco . I need 39"... so it might just work.

 

It’s update time. I will add a couple new posts on some truck upgrades, a trip review and 8 month review of the Project M.

First up, truck upgrades.

Back in September I did some suspension upgrades and installed a larger transmission cooler. With added weight comes potential issues to solve.

I am running Icon coilovers up front. I had the 650# springs but found with the weight upfront I’d lost any added lift. I upgraded the springs to the 700# springs. If you are in the market for coilovers and have plan to have a winch bumper, skids and possibly sliders with the Project M, I’d highly recommend starting off with the beefier springs.

I also added rear airbags back in August. I’m not sure it was completely necessary as my leaf springs (Icon RTX, all 8 leaves) where close to max but the Taco lean was out of control. When loaded there was 3/4” difference between the left and right rear. With the airbags, it is easy to fix that and adjust based on load out. Plus it takes some of the stress off of the leaf springs and I can add some height in back if needed. If you have a similar issues consider the Firestone airbags. They are fairly inexpensive and easy to install. Although, since I am running 8 leaves I had to extend a bracket for the air bag mount. I had a neighbor weld an extension on it for me. I also went with the Dystar cradles so the airbag isn’t attached at the bottom for full suspension flex.

As far as the transmission cooler, I was running into issues with transmission heat. Back in June I was up high, around 8000ft in low range on a short track when the transmission over heated and shut off the truck. Over heat kicks in around 300F. I use the OBD Fusion app and started monitoring the trans temps. Driving around the Sierras I found the temps getting up over 250F. After some TW research I found that transmission temperature can be an issue for those that tow or have a lot of weight.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-transmission-cooler-upgrade.482280/

I also ran across someone that was having over heat issues going slow in four low. The fix is fairly easy and not that expensive. I added a fan as described in the linked thread. The jury is still out on whether I need it. Will have to wait till next summer to find out. Id recommend staring off without the fan and add it later if you still have heat issues. I monitored trans temps on a recent trip to UT and it stayed between 190-210F for the most part.

I recommend getting an OBD App and watching your transmissions temps. High heat will break down transmission fluid much faster than the recommended change interval and kills transmissions. Something to consider when adding weight. The app and bluetooth OBD adapter are cheap insurance.

 

We spent last week putting the Taco and the Project M build to the test out in UT.

Tea Pot Camp

We did 230+ miles on dirt, 60ish in low range and off grid for six days. We did a trip into the Maze District of Canyonlands Nat Park with one night at Tea Pot, three nights at the Doll House and our last night at the top of the Flint trail. The Taco did amazing. The Flint trail was trivial, albeit a bit scare for those afraid of heights.

The road is a couple miles long steep shelf road. Getting up it was no issue in low range considering the weight of the build.

The road out to the Doll House from Tea Pot is a technical track that’s 17 miles long. The first six miles being the hardest taking us three hours and over five to do the full 17 miles.




We went with a friend who has a Land Cruiser on 37s and another friend in a stock Nissan Frontier. The Land Cruiser had no issues walking over the obstacles like they were not there. The two trucks, both on 32s; slowed us way down. Going slow paid off with no serious damage to the Taco. We hit the skids a few times and dragged the hitch skid a bunch and they did what they are there to do. On the way out we where pushing it a little to fast and I caught the rear bumper on a rock which caused some minor damage underneath. We used the rear locker a few times and the Taco crawled up and over the obstacles with no issue considering the length and weight. Not having a locker and no lift the Nissan took some abuse and had a few issues getting up and over a some of the obstacles and hills. On one hill with a step at the top, the Nissan took three tries. All three where speed runs with the truck bouncing all over the place. The Taco, with locker engaged, walked up it on the first try to the amazement of some on lookers one of which had a stock 3rd Gen TRD Off-road. I definitely found out what my Taco build can do. I never intended to do technical tracks with it so this is about as hard a track I’d want to do. I know some folks will say it isn’t that hard of a track, but considering the build weight and truck length it was fun but a bit challenging. And is a good testament to what a built out Taco can do. We did get a few surprised looks from Jeepers when they saw a Four Wheel Camper headed their way.


This is an awesome trip and the scenery is outstanding. The Park Service does a good job of limiting folks that go into the Maze area. Permits are required for all day and overnight use. We saw one person the three days out at the Doll House and just a few rigs going in and outs.

 

This is all rad. My Project M is on order. I'd like to check out your build if you're ever in the Reno/Tahoe area. I'd like to do something similar but probably modular for easier removal.

 

I will PM you.

 

A quick update:
I am still working on a 9 month review. I have a couple more projects to finish up and “cold” weather trip planned shortly.

This weekend the weather is changing in my area. It’s looking like a dusting of snow and temps in the teens. Perfect weather to test the diesel heater. I had to pull it out so I could take it apart to clean it. After about 10 hours of use it got clogged up with soot.




I spent a few hours doing research on a Facebook group and educated myself on proper tuning of these diesel heaters. After a couple tests and tuning sessions the last couple days it is now running properly.


I will hopefully be doing a short trip in the upcoming cold weather to really test it out. Once I have done that I will do a formal write up on the diesel heater.

This weekend I started working on some upgrades and fixes to the back door. The back door is problematic. I redesigned and fabricated new supports for the lifter brackets. There is no reinforcement inside the door so when FWC tightened down the brackets it crushed the door. Plus with only thin aluminum skin on the outside, the brackets rotated scratching the finish. It’s a poor design considering they use two 40lbs lifters. I am waiting on parts to finish it up.


OEM set design





I caulked all the seams on the outside of the door and back window. And I am working on a gutter system to keep rain and snow from running down the door all over the back when it is up. I am also experimenting with some new weather seal. Once I get it together I will do a better right up.

This evening I used my outstanding sewing skills and sewed up an emergency exit. As if two doors and a formal emergency exit window are not enough.




True story, service adviser at FWC told me about a couple trapped up in the bed area with a bear in the camper. They cut their way out. Quite an expensive fix apparently. I figured the knife will provide another option for escape. The knife has a seatbelt cutter at the bottom. That could be handy cutting the fabric quickly. The pouch has Velcro in the back to hold it on the wall carpet at the head of the bed.

 

This thread is my current favorite reading material. Thank you for being so thorough!

I’m considering an M along with another option.

 

I finished up the new rear door lifter brackets this week just in time for the upcoming cold and snow weather. I 3D printed a prototype gutter system for the back door to help keep rain or snow melt from running down the back door and dripping all over the place when up. And finally I redid the rear door weather stripping to test out a different type weather stripping.

One of the biggest issues with the Project M is the back door. The door has two 40lbs lifters attached to angled aluminum on the exterior with a 1/4” aluminum plate on the inside. Between the bracket and backing plate is the thin aluminum skin, rigid foam insulation and thin plastic interior skin. There is no rigid support on the inside of the door. Because there is no support, when FWC installed the lifter brackets, they over tightened the hardware and squished the door. There are noticeable dents in the door. This also creates gaps between the metal door frame and the aluminum skin in this area. This allowed water to get into the door.


Another issue I had was with only the thin aluminum skin holding the outside bracket, the rotational force creates by the lifters caused the bracket to rotate. This caused the bracket to scratch the finish and enlarge the holes in the skin.


I beefed up the system by adding a 6” 1/8 aluminum plate on the outside and replaced the 6” 1/4” plate with a 1/8” plate on the inside. There was no reason to use 1/4” on the inside and the 1/8” looks cleaner.



I add two additional holes, one at the top and bottom of the 1/8” aluminum to hold them in place against the door. These two bolts control how much compression force is applied between the two plates. Having the larger plates also dissipates the force across a larger area. For the three holes that hold the OEM angled aluminum bracket, on the outside plate, I threaded the holes. This allows for the bracket to be held tight against the plate without overnighting and compressing the door. The inside plate has five holes all with rivnuts installed. This eliminates having exposed nuts on the inside (yes I know, very funny, get it out now....).




Additionally, I used butyl tape on the outside to seal the holes and provide cushion to help prevent squishing the door. The new system also helped cover up the scratches in the finish and hide the dents.

After removing the OEM brackets and before installing the new system, I caulked the door around the sides, window and handle. I filled in the gaps between the aluminum skin and door frame. In theory, the exterior of the door should be water and dust tight.

While I was at it, I also designed and 3D printed a prototype gutter system for the back door. The gutter fits just below the hinge.

Prototyping in white PLA.


Prototype attached just under hinge with 3M tape, printed in black PETG.

I am hoping to test it this weekend. When the door is up while it is raining, the water runs down and drips all over the tailgate and just inside the interior. With the gutter I am hoping the water will run off to either side. Unfortunately the door is angled on the sides near the top so the gutter won’t get the water all the way to the side of the topper. It will still drip onto the tailgate and just inside, but hopefully will control it to just two locations where I can put down a towel. I am also planning to put the same gutter system along the back of the topper just above the hinges to redirect the water running down the back.

To finish off the project, I replace all the weather stripping that I had installed previously. The OEM weather system was inadequate from the start. I added my own weather stripping to enhance the OEM seals. My old system worked great in combinations with all the other things I have done to seal up the tailgate and topper. The issues was the stripping made it hard to close he rear door due the thickness and density of the foam.

Bulb on left, old style on right

I chose a bulb style seal as an alternative since it will compress to a smaller thickness. I used the bulb seal on the sides of the door frame and between the tailgate and door.


FWC uses a molded plastic tailgate piece attached to the bottom of the door. It flairs out a bit on the sides so the old seal or new bulb seal wouldn’t reach the tailgate. I put in several inches of foam and sculpted for fit to make it to look better. This seems to do the trick.


I also added a flat 1/8” neoprene weather stripping to the top of the door frame between the hinges.


Fingers crossed it works otherwise I will go back to my original setup. So far it appears to be sealing just as well and it is easier to close the door. I will likely have to wait till next summer to test how well it works for dust unless we have a dry winter this year.

I’ve written a 9 month review of the Project M. I need to update it and add new info, assuming I get out soon, before I post it.

 

We got out this weekend and did some winter camping. There ended up being a bit more snow than expected with 13” overnight. Project M did well. Diesel heater was outstanding.

More to come.

 

Looks good just read through. Waiting to get mine

 

This thread is very enjoyable to read, very thorough and informative. Your experience, reviews, and overall project is extremely helpful when researching the Project M. Thank you! Looking forward to more.

Cheers

 

9+ Month Update:

We’ve spent 33 nights and about 10,000 miles “social distancing” in the Project M since we got it in January. Most of our trips have been on dirt backroads. Overall I am still happy with the Project M a few issues aside. If I where to order it again, I would get the same options.

There definitely are some quality control issues with FWC. I’ve spoken with other owners and done research to find this is not an isolated issue. In fact, there is a YouTube couple, that picked up there Hawk Camper the same day I picked up my Project M, who had a ceiling leak. They documented it on their channel. FWC failed to seal a screw hole in the roof rack track correctly which caused a leak. When I replaced my roof vent, there where three screws that where not fully covered by the lap seal. This probably wouldn’t have leaked since they used plenty of butyl tape between the roof and vent, but I replaced the vent before I had a chance to test it. Clearly someone in there roofing department isn’t doing quality work. Thankfully I have not had any leaks to date.

Another potentially serious issue is the wiring in the ceiling. One of the wires in the ceiling shorted out and while troubleshooting the issue, I discovered wire braids hanging outside the butt connector of the solar positive wire. This is inexcusable and is most likely the culprit for the wire that shorted. Fortunately I discovered the solar wire issue before it had a chance to short out. I have chosen not to deal with the short in the ceiling wiring. I was able to isolate the wire and have bypassed the short with out tearing into the ceiling liner. The LED lights can be daisy chained together. I was able to run power to the affected light on the outside of the ceiling along the black trim. It is only noticeable if you are looking for it. I’m not sure what FWC could do to fix the short without tearing out the ceiling liner. I’m not willing to deal with the potential to have a damaged ceiling.

Additional issues include finish details on the exterior trim that are lacking and the ABS black plastic material they used for the walls and trim inside the trailer is not great. Their intent was to make the interior water resistant. “Something that could be hosed out.” Unfortunately the plastic warps in the heat. I will eventually replace the ceiling trim with wood like they use in their slide in campers.

Probably the biggest issue, as I have noted several times, is the back door and seal. FWC needs to come up with a solution to fix the door issues and they need to be open that you will need to do some work to seal your truck bed from dust and water (not that sealing your truck bed is their responsibility) I’ve document what I did to seal up the bed and fix the back door issues. Dust intrusion is always going to be a problem with a topper. I’ve managed to minimize it. If you have a 2nd Gen you may have a bigger issue with dust intrusion. I ran into a 2nd Gen with a Project M. They have one of the early versions. FWC did a decent job with the molded 3rd Gen tailgate piece. But really fell short on the 2nd Gen. There are significant gaps on the 2nd Gen. FWC has been telling them they are working on a solution but it been 8+ months.

Our Project M has the smooth aluminum siding. We spend a lot of time off road and driving roads with vegetation that encroaches into the road. We have a lot of desert pin striping on both the truck and topper. Be aware that the siding on the topper is easily damaged. We have a few dings and scratches caused by branches. I don’t believe this is a fault of FWC, it is just how it is. The aluminum diamond plate siding probably would hide this better than the smooth siding.

Overall, we are happy with the purchase,the functionality of the Project M and don’t regret the purchase. If you are a DIY’r or problem solver it is a good purchase. If you are looking for a plug and play solution you will either need to find an dealer/installer that can deal with sealing the truck bed and minor issues that arise or look for a different product. If you want to stick with FWC consider one of their slide in campers.

 

Thanks for the detailed-honest review. I've been a big fan of FWC, but never owned one, so this provides some insight into what to look for when myself or a friend buys one. I have the Northstar slide in camper, and just replaced the roof rack seals over the weekend. The original installation was SS carriage bolts into the roof (with a plate underneath) and a bead of silicon caulking around the edge of the rack base. Needless to say, the camper started leaking, and was in dire needed repair before this next week's Yosemite trip. I'd done the skylight and solar panel before, so I had experience. I used a wire brush wheel on the aluminum roof, butyl tape under the base, SS carriage bolt to new aluminum under plates (because the old steel plates rusted), and Dicor

$1,400 self-leveling 165FT/50M, drain pipe inspection camera built-in 512hz transmitter, meter counter, with microphone speaker DVR recorder, 16GB TF card, guide wheel (5mm cable)

self-leveling caulking to cover everything up, with an enamel spray paint finish. This is how these camper roofs should be treated, IMO (see attached). Not some silly thin bead of white silicon...

Thanks again for the review!

 

To Thermal Pack or not to Thermal Pack?

One of the options FWC offers is the Thermal Pack for $750. The Thermal Pack is fabric that velcros to the top of the pop up section down to the hard wall. The fabric creates a barrier between you and the outside fabric of the pop up section. The claim is this creates a layer of insulation by both the additional fabric and the air gap between the outside fabric. I have been told by FWC and others there is a 6-10F difference between inside and out. Most people leave up their Thermal Packs year round to help insulate against both hot and cold weather. The fabric they use is similar in design as fabric used to make car covers.

Is it worth having? A lot of people say yes. I say it depends on your situation.

Are you traveling in really hot or cold climates and will 10F make a difference for you? Then maybe. It may be the difference of sleeping somewhat comfortably and not at all. Do you have a heater and endless fuel? Then who cares right? Well it may help lower the fuel cost slightly and less wear and cycles on the heater.

Is it worth the $750? Yes and no. Considering my situation and DIY skill level it is not worth the cost. I can make a Thermo Pack for considerably less. But, for most based on the material cost and time it takes to make one, it may be more economical to purchase directly from FWC.

Recently I started sewing up my own version of the Thermal Pack. Over the past year, I purchased a sewing machine and taught myself how to sew. I also acquired an unused full size truck cover for free. I’ve harvested enough fabric from the cover to make my own version of the Thermal Pack. This project takes basic sewing skills. I am still a beginner. The only other cost was Velcro and thread. Total cost so far has been less than $40. The sewing machine, a refurbished Brother SE625, cost around $280. Not considering my time, I am way ahead over spending $750 for a factory Thermal Pack. Plus the sewing machine has been used or is being used for many other projects.

I’ve finished one side so far. Once I get it all done and tested, I will do a follow up post.


Without Thermal Pack


My version


FWC factory Thermo Pack


2” factory velcro strip attaches to top of pop up fabric in a FWC model.


Top velcro on a FWC model with factory Thermal Pack

*note: I have heard that FWC is now charging extra to have your unit Thermal Pack ready. I assume this would include the velcro sewn into the top and on the wall. I have not verified this rumor. The Project M price sheet on their web site does not list this option. If you plan on purchasing a camper or Project M and might want a Thermal Pack later, you should verify your unit comes with the velcro at least sewn into the top. My Project M came this way at no extra cost. I had to add the bottom velcro. I used 1” sticky backed velcro which is easy to install.

 

Just a quick note on the thermal pack ready option. I am picking up my Project M on 12/14 (OMG), and I had to specifically request that they add thermal pack attachments, and I believe I paid an extra $75 for it.

 

Good info, thanks for posting it. I have been planning on making a thermal pack for my FWC. After talking to some other owners, they mentioned having more condensation issues while using the pack. I am still going to make one and will just check the vinyl in the corners for moisture every other day. I am unfamiliar with car cover material, but I have been thinking about using cotton for the pack as it would absorb the moisture and then I will just throw it in the washer when i get home.

I also run a chinese diesel heater. I run kerosene and run it on high to keep coking down. The kero also resists gelling in the cold unlike diesel. What info did you find about tuning it?

 

I am also planning on making a pack, and I haven't decided on material. I am getting the vent fan, so hopefully condensation won't be too bad. My initial thought was to make a thermal pack out of a very thin boiled wool or felt (like yurt insulation). I'd probably reserve it for legitimately cold applications only.