Bilstein 5100 Settings for dummies

yup wouldn’t change a thing

 

What size tires are you running in this photo?

 

265/65/17

 

I just read this entire thread . Sort of a waste of time, but, one never knows where the nugget of gold is to be found.

The disappointing aspect of the information , to me, is the lack of clarity in description.

"shocks" like the bilstiens, have only a few characteristics.

OVERALL LENGTH
TRAVEL from fully extended to fully compressed
Integrated external or internal BUMP STOPS (that more accurately influence spring rate)
COMPRESSION DAMPING RATE
REBOUND DAMPING RATE
(From the information video, the 5100s have "falling rate" damping. Used to be the rates were "compared" 75/25, 80/20 rebound to compression. Springs take the impact, dampers suppress the jounce )

Not a characteristic, but rather a design element is the use of oil emulsion and attendant gas pre-charge to stabilize damping performance over a broad range of operation and conditions. Bilstiens would be gas emulsion

SPRINGS really only have a few characteristics also

STATIC LENGTH
WIRE DIAMETER
COIL DIAMETER
NUMBER of COILS
END CONFIGURATION ( are there ground half coils etc.)
(Most spring steels have very similar Young's modulus, So most springs can be compared as if they were a straight rod cantilevered out from a ridged constraint.)

SPRING RATE (the amount of force required to compress the spring a given distance.
( A spring rate of 500 pounds per inch would require 500# to compress the first inch, 1000# to compress the second inch, 1500# to compress the spring three inches from it's static length) Spring rates can be STRAIGHT RATE" ,PROGRESSIVE RATE, or even FALLING RATE. The latter case is exceptional.

In automotive application, PRELOAD is also an important consideration for suspension performance and tuning. For in vehicle applications there is both a static ride height, and a burdened ride height. There is also DROOP, which is the difference between the ride height and full extension. If the road surface just drops away, you want a bit of extension available to keep the tire in contact with the driving surface ;-)

My observation on this thread is that there is some displaced understanding mostly surrounding the "coil over damper" configuration. Recall, MOST automotive applications do NOT place the supporting spring around the damper! Shocks and springs are two different elements. McPhearson/ Chapman STRUTS blended the two, COIL OVERS, such as found on these Tacos, are the most compact execution. Don't get confused by this simple space saving configuration! All elements still work the same.

To the point of "most" participants in this thread, Static vehicle ride height can be highly important visually. But it is a very trivial criteria for handling performance or ride quality.

IF one wished only to change the ride height with NO OTHER SUSPENSION PERFORMANCE CHANGES, An extension link or spacer, to increase the distance between the fixed frame suspension mounting and the wheel spindle position would be the most direct modification. Isn't that why a "Space block" is so common and accepted for the rear leaf springs? Suspension travel, damping,spring rate, and spring preload remains constant. The "spacer" between the upper shock mount and the frame shock "perch" accomplishes this. I'n not sure why this option is not suggested more frequently for those wishing only to change static height. Perhaps because this is a Bilstien 5100 thread ;-)

The Bilstien 5100 adjustment feature actually only changes SPRING PRELOAD. (The spring must be preloaded or it would not require a spring compressor to install into the confines of the fully extended 5100 damper assembly.. The effect on vehicle ride height is only at the expense of unladen DROOP. Jack up a corner and "CHECK YOUR DROOP" to see just how high you can go. ;-)

With that, IF the spring requires 500# to compress 1 inch, and the preload is compressing the spring 1 inch with NO ADDITIONAL LOAD, it will require 500# of vehicle load to even move the spring into more compression. To compress the suspension 1 inch from static will require 1000#. .

With that, with a 500# per inch spring , If your TONKA truck places 1000 pounds of load onto the RF suspension, With 1 inch of preload, the truck will ride with 1 inch of DROOP. and have that droop available to smooth the ride. (Same thing stated in the paragraph above, but with the truck used in example ;-)

IF under all the same conditions, 2 inches of preload are applied (by moving up the clips on the 5100) The spring would require a full 1000# loading just to move the suspension, 500 additional pounds (1500# total) would compress the spring an additional inch. There would be NO DROOP at the 1000# load. The damper would be fully extended. The rebound action of the damper would be harsh. But the vehicle would be sitting on top of it's world ....static;-) Ride quality, i.e. dynamic damping action could be degraded. There are always trade offs when changes are made. Or "There is no Free Lunch!

Preload adjustments are very common for motorbike applications where the burdened ride height can be greatly changed by the addition of a pillion passenger or touring gear.
The bike is light compared to the load. These trucks carry much greater proportional mass in comparison to a single operator. The effects of spring rate, damping characteristics, and preload may well be lost in the noise. (And the owner's discretion) The principles still apply.

Lots of good references on the topic in the motorbike and sports car world. ("How to make your Sports Car Handle" by Fred Puhn is an oldie but goodie.)

 

Then leave the thread

 

One never knows where the nugget will be found

 

I just smoked a big green nugget

 

hear that is a frequent occurrence in Petaluma. I lived in Goleta for a few years, glad to be shed of that state of mind.

 

So to change my shocks I don’t need a spring compressor? Going stock shock to stock shock I mean.

 

Should I got 285/70/17 or 275 for my next tire? Only at the 1.55 setting dont wanna rube

 

275

 

IF... When you jack up your toy truck by the frame, and the wheels are off the ground at full droop, if the suspensions springs rattle around on their perches and collars, you don't need a spring compressor. (I doubt that would be the case.

IF the spring is still tight when the wheel is off the ground, a spring compressor is required. Even if it looks like a floor jack! ;-)

 

So the stock springs are under some preload as well? Sorry, I just can’t wrap my head around how these 5100’s produce lift. They add preload, which is compression, right? How would pre-compressing a spring produce lift? When you compress a spring it gets shorter, correct?

 

here you go

 

Yea the spring its shorter , but it under force and its pushing out trying to go back to its length . Making the ride stiffer and lifting .

 

5100s top notch rear add a leaf and 33s stupid capable. Full skids so no stress just waiting on my sso front bumper to come in

 

Sooooo I just ordered 5100's with 883's and the strut mount from Headstrong. Am I reading this thread correct that the strut mount/ new coils are not a good idea? I plan to add no lift and my access cab has all factory equipment, just slightly larger tires. I just wanted to replace factory equip as I am approaching 115k miles.

 

Ran eibach coils on my 5100s been a few thousand miles now. On the 3rd setting at about 3inches of lift. Love the ride over stock. I know some say don’t run anything but stock coils but whatever they are 100$ struts..

 

I've read through a lot of this thread, have learned a lot, and amazingly still have a question.

Can you tell a difference in stability/ride quality between your son's truck on the 5th setting and your truck on the 4th? I am concerned that it will make it too prone to thinking about rolling, but my local shop is saying it really isn't enough to cause roll issues. We are scheduled to have 5100s front and rear installed this week on my son's DCSB along with a 1 inch block in the rear- ToyTech recommended that for the 5th setting. They also said stock coils are fine if they are in good shape, so we are sticking with those.

Thanks in advance, I know this thread has been beaten to death.