Cracked sheet metal above radiator body bushings

same lmao, i envy the gladiator/wrangler and its live axles as well. just wish toyota would just sell the lc79 here

 

just when i thought i had nothing to really worry about i fucking read this thread...... seems like its more than just simply the fender supports under the battery but literally everywhere in the fenders and radiatior support.

 

I'd bet the noise you have, popping and creaking is the bushings. Mine was, and I tried several times with several different torque values and lubricants make the sleeves and bushings and washers not creak, no luck. OEM for the win on this one, for me anyway.

 

Could be, I guess. But the noise with the OEM bushings was the reason I changed to poly in the first place, so I highly doubt that would get any better going back (for me, at least).

 

Just read through this entire thread. I'm worried now b/c I have a ton of extra weight up front, and invested a pile of money in a full suspension setup so I could run through the desert at high speed. Two quick questions:

1) It seems some are leaning towards not replacing OEM bushings with poly due to less give, which could exacerbate stress/cracking on supports. Makes sense to me, and I'll probably just plan on replacing OEM maybe every 10-15k miles. Would it help any to grease the OEM bushings? I grease my ICON UCA bushings w/ Superlube at every rotation interval, and it makes a huge difference, at least with squeaking. Wondering if that would help with longevity with the OEMs.

2) Does having a full mid or long travel suspension setup help at all in avoiding damage as shown in this thread? Can I assume that you would bottom out less given the same conditions (esp. with the addition of bump stops), thereby reducing the impact to the supports, or does it not make any difference?

Apologies for the newb questions, but trying to maximize my chances of avoiding this carnage I'm seeing.

 

Well that’s discouraging ☹️

I guess I’ll do the battery relocation to the passenger side and hope for the best

 

so my question would be, where are people getting the new bushings? what torque value are they to be torqued to? and are there any special precautions before removing/replacing the bushing?

I ask because i have a popping in the front that i haven't been able to find. This is a 2021 and the popping is only heard when taking off from a complete stop. Now I'm not talking engine mount type banging when stomping the gas pedal. It's 2-4 little pops very quickly sounding (so fast it nearly sounds like 1 pop) after lightly hitting the pedal as the front end comes up just a little. I also get it when verry lightly stepping on the brake pedal as the front end dips down as its just coming to a complete stop. This is all at about 5 mph movement.

Also I as towing some light jet skis this weekend and the sound was MUCH louder. Its normally quiet, but there.

Yes, I know it's under Warranty, I don't trust most shops to find the right end of a screwdriver because its low man on the totem pole doing Warranty work as quickly as possible.

 

could be your LCA bushings. mine clicked and popped pretty easily when it was new. im talking like very little movement caused them to make such a noise, but its not a noise of concern for me.

I also have the FSM if you want the torque specs for cab mounts. currently at work so would have to wait til i get home

 

I installed an X2 27f today before finding this thread... I'm now questioning that decision.

 

I ended up buying the x2 24f last week after a mental back and forth. Originally was going with the 27 but the numbers/difference didn’t justify 20 extra pounds for me. I don’t do the overland thing but wanted better than stock and those occasional family trips/running the fridge. It’s been harder than normal but I’ve been on a ‘be true to your use’ kinda thing with the taco, which has saved me some money.

x2 24f is only a 10lb increase over my stock battery.

 

shot in the dark but does anyone know if toyota has beefed up the metal on the newer tacomas like they did the FJ? i looked at mine and the sheet metal looks pretty thick, then again ive never checked any other tacoma.

 

I just came across this thread, took delivery of my O/R a few months ago like it appears you did. I'll have to report back with some findings.

On that note, has anyone explored lightweight "racing" batteries? Even 5-10lbs lighter might make a big difference in the forces sustained, but this isn't an 86 or IS300 track car and I am ignorant of the implications of doing this to our trucks and how they might perform. A shorter replacement interval might be worth mitigating some stress to the sheet metal for some people in some situations.

 

Food for thought and reviving an old thread: I recently discovered mine is cracked to shit. Definitely needs a repair. A friend has a very similar setup to mine, same bumper, battery, similar lift and tires, and we do a lot of the same trips. His is fine. The only big difference is I replaced my body mount bushings about a year ago and is are OEM. I think the factory flex is key, otherwise all that frame flex gets transmitted to the sheet metal. I’m going back to OEM and then going to do my best to repair and patch the cracks.

 

How many miles do you have on the truck? Also what was the intention of replacing body mount bushings? I see a good amount of people here doing that.

 

The factory ones flex too much, the bending back and forth works the cracks and the flex allows for hard metal to metal contact.

Polyurethane strikes a reasonable balance, if it was too rigid that wouldn't be good it would crack closer to the mounts not solid enough that will flex all over and have the issues that are so presented.

 

I have about 50k on it. I replaced them because the driver side one was making noise and worn out and that’s what people recommended

I understand where you are coming from but I don’t think that’s right. If you look at how these cracks are forming, they are starting at the bottom and also cracking at the top. That indicates that the sheet metal is being twisted or bending up and down (not just accounted for by extra battery weight). I believe that when you have the factory body mounts there is enough flex in them that they aren’t able to transmit the energy from the frame flexing to the sheet metal. But when I put the more rigid polyurethane bushings in there, that minimizes the flex and more rigidly connects the body to the frame. So the energy is now transmitted to the body and the sheet metal can’t take it.

Even when my body mounts were shot I had no cracks. Within a year of switching them to poly it’s cracked to shit. I have read three or four threads on this and so far have not seen anyone say they are on factory body mounts and have cracks. Hopefully I’m wrong and it’s just bad luck!

Here’s an example of much flex is going on in the frame. Look at the bumper gap on the passenger side vs the driver side. That is not there when the truck is flat and this pic is with factory bushings.

 

This makes a lot of sense. It is interesting how many problems crop up when swapping rubber for polyurethane anywhere on the vehicle. I think the ignorance of aftermarket "engineers" in this regard is a textbook example of the pitfalls of swapping aftermarket for OEM.

I also wonder how much effect removing the radiator to frame support braces to install an aftermarket IFS skid plate has on this issue. If the radiator flexes more with respect to the frame, it seems like that could make things worse.

 

Shit like this happens. I don't blame anyone, this is just part of trying to improve things based on a different use case than Toyota engineers design for. But also having body mount bushings that self-destruct after 20k miles on a stock truck is pretty pathetic. We're all learning!

Not sure how much an IFS skid would change things. A thicker steel skid may reduce flex between the frame rails. Toyota does make fairly thick aluminum skid so there's at least something accounted for already. My anecdotal evidence (my favorite kind) is that I was running an IFS skid for ~30k miles and no cracks.

 

I am totally with you on this. I had the same experiences as you, and either in this thread or a different one, I mentioned my same thoughts. Our frames flex a ton. And when you really look at the body mounts and radiator mounts, you can see and exacerbated problem with a cantilever. The front cab mount only needs to flex a small amount with respect to the rear cab mount, for it to be a cantilevered problem of lots of flex at the radiator mount, meaning the radiator mount needs to move a lot with respect to the frame in order for the metal to not be taking up the movement. Or looking at it from reverse, the front frame can flex a ton before the cab mounts need to absorb, leaving all that flex to be taken up in the radiator bushings.

I can buy the fact that factory mounts degrade, and even collapse. But they are not the problem. Replace them if needed. Moving to a poly mounting system, especially by the radiator, is almost zero flex in the system. I tried the poly mounts, and aside from the horrible noises and creaking I couldn't get rid of, and the torn gouged pucks and sleeves and crap, it caused my radiator core support under the headlights to crack so much in only a few months that I was appalled. I put new OEM rubber mounts back in, and haven't had the cracking get any worse. I was able to get about 3/16" of large washers between the mounts and the body with out having to use different bolts, giving me the body lift I was after with the poly mounts "flipped" as well. I still have to repair the cracking that I have. Not sure whether to do with with welding and reinforcing, or if it is a lost cause and replacing the whole core support is the only answer. That sure doesn't seem like an easy job although some have claimed it isn't that bad - but I worry a new one won't line up in a lot of ways anymore...

I'd honestly recommend that you buy two sets of radiator mounts, have one on the shelf for later. They are really cheap, like a few bucks IIRC and they will wear and deform and break down faster than the cab mounts. Best bet is to let the truck flex, let the rubber do it's job, and especially let the front float around on the rubber supports, replacing when needed. You obviously see the issue with frame flex with respect to the body. Either that gets taken up by soft rubber mounts, or the sheetmetal has to bend that much every single bump, which work hardens then tears. Putting in a giant battery will speed up the tearing. Also I think that if anyone ever replaces UCA's... they should cut the bolt and reinstall new bolts from the back, this prevents wrenching and bending and possibly starting tears in the inner fender area, critical to supporting the radiator core support.

If someone wants to argue that the factory frame is too flexy, or Toyota should have done it differently with more mount points, or something else that is a different story. But arguing that the factory mounts are too soft, and need to be replaced with nearly rigid poly urethane, to prevent cracking is mis-informed IMO. I also put two and two together, where people are putting in poly, then reporting that they are tearing up the sheet metal. Then they blame the sheet metal, or claim they are using the truck harder then others, or whatever. I do think that use, and speed, your offroading pleasures or style can have a lot to do with it. I've seen people be brutal to their trucks on the same roads that others just aren't. The fact is, the frames flex with respect to the body, and you have to let that flex happen somewhere or it will happen where you don't want it to.

 

Can anyone with cracking and factory body mounts chime in here? I've suspected my drivers body mount was bad shortly after taking delivery in 2018 and I would love to know if there is a correlation

Edit for clarity: I'm on factory bushings and have been giving a lot of thought to poly, until I read this.