Manual hub conversion (poll)

U right. A locker would be nice to have. I have the 4 cyl TRD so I don't even have the rear locker.

 

Shit, I'd invest in a rear locker first!

4WD open diff is truly a 2WD.

Add a rear locker, and you become 3WD.

 

Aight, so I gotta add rear locker, front locker, regear both diffs, increase tire size, lift the truck, (add manual hubs for shits n giggles). Its a long way to the moon.

 

If it were me, and I had your truck, I'd just go lockers (if I was wheeling).

I wouldn't convert to manual hub. The ADD setup is fine as is.

Tons of people wheel on it without issue.

 

What kind of locker would you personally recommend?

 

Harrop.

Electronic, so it's instant.

Less hassle due to no additional components such as on-board air, no servicing required, and no air lines to worry about. With that said, many people run air lockers without issue.

I got a front Harrop e locker for the 4Runner but with moving, quitting a long term job, etc I gave up on that rig and switched to the LC.

I'd go Harrop for the LC.

 

I'll throw in my opinion. It sounds like you know the benefits of the swap. I agree that manual hubs has advantages in certain use cases. One downfall of ADD is that if the hub side axle stub breaks, you loose your wheel bearing preload, which means your hub is likely to fall apart after rolling down the road. The manual hub preload is retained with the hub nut, so you can take out the axle and can still safely roll down the road.

I have done a manual hub conversion and later wish I hadn't. I can offer the following personal observations about why I think it's not worth it:

1. It barely noticed any performance improvements after doing the conversion. In the real world, I only saw maybe a 1/2 mpg increase at best.
2. I didn't really notice any difference in the smoothness in which it rolled down the road.
3. I also thought it would cause me to split boots less (had 2.5" in the front at the time). However, I locked them one time in anticipation of snow that day. Later that week I found grease flung everywhere on a practically not used axle. My theory is that the rubber boots going "unused" 98% of the time made the boots more brittle. Just a theory. This is likely not an issue if the truck is not lifted.
4. I noticed a small clunking occasionally. The CV axles are retained by a snap ring, but allow for maybe a 0.5-1mm axial play, even with the proper washers installed. The ADD axles is drawn tight with the axle nut. A small nit-pick
5. The ADD axles that mate up with the hub are actually thicker than the manual CV axles and have more spline engagement with the hubs. One would conclude that the ADD axles stubs is stronger. The engagement of the hub collars vs the ADD is suspect. I know people run them on trails without issue, but I personally think the ADD is a stronger setup. I've seen some serious manual hub carnage floating around on TW. They are a failure point and you gain no advantage is you retain the ADD with manual hubs.
6. I found maintenance a slightly harder (aka more steps) if you have to take out the axles, the snap ring is a kinda a pain in the ass. Much rather remove an axle nut. In the long term they have to be serviced occasionally.
7. Actuating the hubs suck if they are full of mud, its cold, icy, etc. Yes, I'm being a baby. Requires forethought on when to lock in certain situations. Def not convenient like ADD.
8. Without a front locker, you can't unlock one side if you have an issue and expect the power to go to the other wheel.

I have since sold the truck I did the conversion on. My current truck I'll be leaving ADD.

 

That's a pretty solid argument. I appreciate the insight.

Are you saying here that when in use, the manual CVs fail more often than ADD CVs? (assuming extremely abusive situations)

 

I cannot say with certainty that they fail more often, as I don't have any sort of solid data. I believe the ADD CVs to be stronger based on the diameter of the shaft and the spline engagement with an axle nut drawing everything together... but that doesn't mean the manual CVs aren't "strong enough" for most people. The point I was making in the quote is you are adding another failure point with manual hubs and with ADD retained. Not only can the ADD fail, but now your hubs can fail as well.

 

the manual hub CVs are 26 spline and ADD are 27. On paper they are weaker.

FWIW I have broken CVs but not manual hubs on 35s with an ARB in the front. The breaks occurred on the inner stub and cages and having ADD wouldn't have prevent it from happening there. Also saw another locked 1st gen with CJVs break one at the cage earlier this year. That said I can think of at least one failure that occurred at the outer stub and took out the hub though.

 

Correction... No one runs an ARB without issue.
At least I have never met anyone that hasn't had an issue with their ARB or something associated with it ... lol

 

I would've asked for a dogpile on that one

I never ran an air locker, so don't have my personal experience to share. On paper though, it's more stuff to go wrong which is why I didn't want to go that route.

That, and a few personal friends of mine had issues with their ARB air pumps, and lockers even. Jeep guys if it matters.

 

Jeepers Creepers

 

I did it in my 92 4Runner with the early version much easier just take the plates off bolt the manual hubs on.

My hubs were locked all winter I still had shift to 4 High while driving if I was going on a long trip on dry roads I unlocked the Hubs.

If my health was better I would have done it on the Tacoma. I have all the parts gathered up just never had the need to pull things apart . If figured sooner or later front wheel bearings then I would have made the swap.

Knowing while still using the ADD the right side would still be turning . No idea if I would have just pinned the left side or not.

I comes down to a personal Choice.

 

Fair enough, these were the posts that came to mind. I think the the incident you're talking about below from your earlier posts. I'm sure you can find similar failures on the ADD CVs.

 

ahhh yep Reh's was the one I was thinking of

 

A buddy of mine just put on Spartan auto lockers on the front of his Toyota truck, pretty cool how those “lunchbox lockers” work. Several companies make them, he said Spartan were well made- just an option- $275!

 

As someone with a ‘97 and factory manual hubs, I’ll have to agree with cattywampus that there’s not really any benefit to the swap.

Only benefits is maybe a tiny bit of mpg, probably not enough to notice, and cv boots might last longer at high angles since they’re not turning constantly.

don’t get how people think they’ll be stronger as your going from one actuator on add axles to two actuators with manual hubs. That’s double the moving parts to have issues.

Another negative I’ve seen first hand is parts availability. Every part store in town carries cv axles for add, including “upgraded” higher angle axles, where as I have had to hunt around town both times I’ve needed an axle to find a place with manual hub cvs in stock.

IMO the time and money it would take to convert from add to manual hubs is better spent elsewhere

 

It looks cool. And the rule is, always look cool.

 

Well you gotta follow the rules y'know. TBH this is really the only real reason I was considering it. But I also really dig those cool looking Ray10 SCS wheels, which aren't compatible with the hubs.

The air lockers do not appeal to me. I'll probably "invest" in an e-locker on the rear like @Kwikvette suggested. I figure the simplest thing would be to send in my 3rd member to ECGS and to have them re-gear it and add a locker? Of course I'd have to get the front re-geared to match. Unless there's a better way?

I appreciate everyone's input here. This has been enlightening. At this point, I probably wont do it, mostly because I don't have unlimited funds and time (and bc decided I want Ray10s). I'll probably prioritize getting a rear locker first and keep the ADD as is. I was a little disappointed to find out my truck didn't come with one.